Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) July 12th 2010, 8:53 pm
So..... BTR has taken a toll of the Venge for sure
As most of you know I blew my upper rad hose on BTR. Well I fixed it, drove it home the next day, and have not drivin her since. I decided I wanted to take the Venge to Miles City for Pauls wedding this past weekend so I went and changed the oil and fixed my radio fuse that I blew on the way home from Redlodge and fired her up to take her for a little test drive. First thing I notice is that my boost gauge and oil pressure gauges are not working right.
The boost gauge does it's normal startup sweep but when the car is started and running, the needle just points straight down and doesn't move. The oil pressure gauge just shoots straight up to as high as it will go and stays there. (I have prosport gauges w/o any peak settings)
Second thing that's nice and obvious even without the boost gauge is the lack of boost... I step on the throttle in 2nd and it starts to pull a little bit and the turbo starts to spool but I can tell that I never hit boost and it just seems to bog out. First thing I think of is boost leak so I did a quick test with some water and dishsoap on all the intercooler piping but didn't see any bubbles. I also checked the intercooler itself for cracks.
Third and worst of all things I noticed when it was idling as I checked for boost leaks I could see a slight plum of white smoke coming from behind the car and sure enough there's just a little bit coming out of the muffler while it's just sitting there........
Everything worked fine on the Sunday after BTR on my way home. I was hittin boost up the pass and the gauges were all reading fine. I don't remember paying much attention after Redlodge because that's when we had heard about the tornado touching down pretty close to our house and were in a rush to get home and check on our puppy. But I do remember that it didn't quite feel like I was hitting boost after I fueled up in Redlodge but like I said I didn't think much of it.
My only hypothesis is that somehow all the coolant that blew everywhere under my hood managed to hurt some wiring for the gauges and possibly my supplementry injector controller (that would explain no boost cause there would be no fuel).
Discuss
Last edited by ZipDriveX on April 4th 2011, 1:01 pm; edited 5 times in total
haproot [ENTHUSIAST]
Age : 43 Join date : 2009-09-25 Posts : 463 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) July 12th 2010, 9:22 pm
I think you are right about the gauges and possibly your injector controller, the wiring got wet and probably corroded. My Prosports did it to me once and prosport replaced the cables for me as they were supposed to be sealed. Except mine were going all sorts of wonky.. but occasionally would just point at the max, or just point straight down.
Novaflash2002 [GARAGE NUT]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-26 Posts : 823 Location : Great Falls, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) July 12th 2010, 9:36 pm
most people blame white smoke on coolant/water, it can also be a fueling issue (yes they dont always blow black smoke).
b1r - TS [WEEKEND WARRIOR]
Age : 41 Join date : 2009-09-28 Posts : 625 Location : Billings
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) July 12th 2010, 11:16 pm
Get a multi meter and start checking things out. Start with visual inspections and then start checking continuity and voltages.
I believe white smoke can also come from lean misfires, so a lack of fuel would explain that IF your injector controller crapped out.... but idle is not a boost condition so I am less likley to think that is the issue. did the car overheat? Do you have an aftermarket temp gauge or do you just rely on the factory. If the factory gauge began t move there is a good chance you have damage. The factory gauges have such poor sensitivity, by the time they begin to show a change its usually too late.
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) July 13th 2010, 9:18 am
b1r - TS wrote:
did the car overheat? Do you have an aftermarket temp gauge or do you just rely on the factory.
I did start to overheat on the way up the pass and I had to pull over and dump 3/4 of a gallon of water in to replace what had boiled up out of the overflow tank.
And unfortunantly I only have a stock temp gauge that I now think doesn't work at all. I remember that when I started to overheat the only way we knew it was because we could smell antifreeze. The gauge just BARELY moved above normal.
I have since added a water temp gauge to my list of needed gauges, even though I fear it may be too late
b1r - TS [WEEKEND WARRIOR]
Age : 41 Join date : 2009-09-28 Posts : 625 Location : Billings
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) July 13th 2010, 9:58 am
Well as far as your gauges go, I would still recommend the same.
For the engine and turbo, I would check for shaft play and then compression test your block. Hope all turns out well for you.
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) July 13th 2010, 6:41 pm
Thanks for the ideas guys. I'm going to be busy with things around the house for a week or two so I won't be able to start tinkering for a while.
When I do, the first thing I want to get done is check all the wiring for the gauges and the injector unit. Then do a compression test and if I have to, hunt down the boost leak.
In the mean time I'm going to get the clutch fixed on my chopper and start rollin it around now that it's nice out
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 2nd 2010, 7:49 pm
Well I had a few minutes of downtime today to check out the Venge a little. I plugged the laptop in and the 034 controller is working properly so that's not my boost problem That and the smoke out of my exhaust is worrying me now. Here's a couple vids....
Novaflash2002 [GARAGE NUT]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-26 Posts : 823 Location : Great Falls, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 2nd 2010, 9:04 pm
sorry to say todd, but i thinku may have some head problems as far as the smoke goes.
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 2nd 2010, 9:15 pm
Yep, that's what Doug and I determined tonight. Warped head from overheating Also Zach told me the sending units for the gauges are probably bad. Looks like the Venge won't be making it to the second Lewistown this year.
Novaflash2002 [GARAGE NUT]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-26 Posts : 823 Location : Great Falls, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 2nd 2010, 9:31 pm
well i was thinking cracked head. under hard throttle it doesnt smoke. whick usually means 1 cylender has a crack.
haproot [ENTHUSIAST]
Age : 43 Join date : 2009-09-25 Posts : 463 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 2nd 2010, 10:28 pm
That is almost exactly what my gauges were doing when the wiring was corroded at the sender. I think i've even had a sender go bad too. Don't think i'll buy prosport again. Sorry to hear about your engine dood. Keep pushin forward!
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 3rd 2010, 9:05 am
Thanks guys. I was really hoping I didn't have any serious issues but oh well. I've spent so much time, effort, and money into her since I got my license back in January of last year that I'm kinda worn out for a bit. Time for me to spend more time focusing on my house and my family
My plan pretty much right now is to do a compression test, drop insurance on her, give her one last car wash, and put her under a car cover for the rest of the year
I want to do all the work myself but in order for this to happen, I need to build a garage onto my house first. I've been saving up (and now can save more) to hopefully build one next summer so I can pull the Venge in and start work. That way I can take my time, learn everything I need to, and do it right!
DoodieHead [GOD LIKE]
Age : 43 Join date : 2009-09-20 Posts : 3074 Location : Shepherd, Montana
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 3rd 2010, 7:38 pm
Sorry to hear about the car Todd, been down that road 21 times and it sucks.
What is the cost of an Avenger head? You didnt have any headwork done did you? If you could get your hands on a head you could easily fix the problem IF it is indeed the head. One advantage to having a car in which the head comes off without having to pull the motor.
Good luck with the project and if you need help just give me a shout.
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 3rd 2010, 11:48 pm
Thanks Mikey! I plan on doing the work myself so I will be needing all the help I can get as I'll be learning everything for the first time. Heads are cheap, $100 - $200 usually. I plan on building my garage next spring. Then I'll be getting a donor head and building it up. I've been doing research and so far I know I'll be putting in PT Cruiser turbo lifters & rockers, port & polish, 3 angle valve job, ect.
I'm bummed that I won't be driving her for a while again, but excited to get a gargae and start building my motor
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 4th 2010, 8:54 am
Cy and Billy both mentioned checking my turbo to see if that's blown so I'm going to check that today. I'm not getting my hopes up but we'll see.
RedMitsu [GEAR HEAD]
Age : 35 Join date : 2009-09-21 Posts : 1093 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 4th 2010, 9:04 am
If you had a blown turbo the smoke would be blue, not white. While you're at it though you might as well check your intake piping, and do an oil change, see if everything looks kosher in there too.
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 4th 2010, 9:35 am
Ahh gotcha. Thanks Montoya, What of the intake piping should I check? And I changed the oil the day I found out I had all these problems and didn't see anything wrong with it. I still have the oil in my bucket lol.
b1r - TS [WEEKEND WARRIOR]
Age : 41 Join date : 2009-09-28 Posts : 625 Location : Billings
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 4th 2010, 10:09 am
a blown turbo will spew oil into your intercooler piping, so there will be a good amount of oil residue throughout the piping. When checking your oil look for any metal particles, if you threw a bearing there will be tons of metal shavings. You shouldn't see anything abnormal in your oil from a blown turbo. If your head is warped there could be coolant mixed into your oil as well.
Just things to check out.... but once you start pulling things apart I bet it will be perectly clear, unfortunaly.
DoodieHead [GOD LIKE]
Age : 43 Join date : 2009-09-20 Posts : 3074 Location : Shepherd, Montana
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 4th 2010, 8:45 pm
Good luck figuring things out. If you need help just call.
RedMitsu [GEAR HEAD]
Age : 35 Join date : 2009-09-21 Posts : 1093 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 4th 2010, 9:55 pm
yeah todd, just call
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 4th 2010, 11:21 pm
Thanks Mikes!!!
DoodieHead [GOD LIKE]
Age : 43 Join date : 2009-09-20 Posts : 3074 Location : Shepherd, Montana
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 14th 2010, 7:59 am
Figure anything out yet Todd? Kind of curious.
BlueSteel [GARAGE NUT]
Age : 30 Join date : 2009-11-26 Posts : 929 Location : Billings
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 14th 2010, 1:37 pm
Im sure you'll fix it Todd, good luck
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 16th 2010, 7:49 pm
I havn't done anything yet and honestly don't plan on it until next summer. Bummer I know but I'm really enjoying spending time with Michaela and our new puppy instead of fixing the car all the time. I'm gonna get a garage built hopefully this coming spring so I can start workin on the car next summer.
DoodieHead [GOD LIKE]
Age : 43 Join date : 2009-09-20 Posts : 3074 Location : Shepherd, Montana
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 16th 2010, 8:53 pm
I totally understand. Sometimes it is good when your car is not running, it gives you time to enjoy other things in life.
a-thomp [WEEKEND WARRIOR]
Age : 29 Join date : 2010-03-22 Posts : 556 Location : Billings
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 16th 2010, 9:51 pm
good idea on just retiring the Venge and save up money for it and build that garage!! that will help a ton when you get to fixing the problems!
Cyfun [GARAGE NUT]
Age : 39 Join date : 2010-01-26 Posts : 864 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 17th 2010, 12:03 am
A blown turbo could spray coolant into the intake, but only if it's the kind of turbo that does circulate coolant. I know my Talon does. Do you know if the Venge does, too? Easy way to tell: count the number of lines going in and out; two being for oil, and two more for coolant.
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 17th 2010, 12:50 pm
It's only an oil cooled turbo. Not too many oil & water cooled boosted 420a's out there. Kinda a PITA to get the coolant lines right I guess.
Cyfun [GARAGE NUT]
Age : 39 Join date : 2010-01-26 Posts : 864 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 17th 2010, 2:00 pm
Ahh okay. Well, I do know that some intakes plenums have coolant flowing through them to warm up air on cold days or some stupid shit like that. In any case, wanna stop by sometime and we can test for boost leaks?
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 17th 2010, 5:13 pm
The boost leak (if that's the actual problem) isn't what I'm worried about at the moment. It's the white smoke from the exhaust that has scared me into not driving her anymore. I'm afraid the headgasket is blown (which is doubtfull because of the Mopar Multi-Layer Steel gasket I already have installed), or even worse that the head is warped or damaged in some other way from overheating. Really I'm at a stand still cause there isn't a way to be 100% certain it is one of those two, it's just a guessing game. And I don't want to start tearing it apart to find out until I have a garage
fastback959 [ENTHUSIAST]
Age : 39 Join date : 2010-01-17 Posts : 460 Location : Billings
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 17th 2010, 8:20 pm
you can do a hydrocarbon test, that should tell you if the heads warped.
or you can do a compression test, both would only take 20mi tops and would point you in the right direction.
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 18th 2010, 11:32 am
Thanks Rob! I have planned on doing a compression and/or leak down test before I put her under the cover for winter. I've never heard of that hydrocarbon test, Ima have to look into that! Know anyone who has one I could borrow by chance?
ProOnThaSnow [WEEKEND WARRIOR]
Age : 38 Join date : 2009-10-07 Posts : 664 Location : Billings
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 18th 2010, 11:51 am
If it was mine, I'd just pull the head, have it checked and if need be milled, throw a new headgasket on it, and see what happens... It'd be your cheapest route to go IMO.
I have a hard time believing the head is warped that bad, without the guage pegging out. Yeah, stock guages are usually fairly innacurate, but as far as just needing a new head right off the bat, I wouldn't go that route. You're boosted, you're putting extra pressure on that head gasket, head studs, combustion chamber. A little headgasket problem will grow exponentially under positive pressure.
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) August 18th 2010, 12:57 pm
Ya, I don't think it's something very major, I'm just a pessimist and automatically assume the worst lol. If I had a garage right now I'd have it all figured out and fixed by now, but I gotta wait to build myself one first.
ZipDriveX [MASTER TECH]
Age : 37 Join date : 2009-09-24 Posts : 1996 Location : Billings, MT
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) February 18th 2011, 1:41 pm
Not much of an update but I have a compression tester at my house and I am waiting on my leak down tester and my block tester to get here hopefully next week. As soon as we get a couple more warm days like we had earlier this week I will start testing to verify that it's the head gasket like I think or something else. I'll post my results when I get to testin!
I'm really hoping to have her running again this Spring so I don't miss out on antother year's worth of events! Both Michaela and I miss crusin!
DoodieHead [GOD LIKE]
Age : 43 Join date : 2009-09-20 Posts : 3074 Location : Shepherd, Montana
Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11) February 18th 2011, 2:45 pm
Nothing worse than a car being down. Let me know if you need help.
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Subject: Re: Venge is out of commision (UPDATED 2/18/11)