Bad Experience with Erics Cylinder Service

Posting this for a friend, he had bad experience with a local machine shop and wanted to give other locals a heads up so we can save some future headaches.




http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1316726-well-he-got-one-thing-right-i-am-idiot.html


Engines Etc does good work by the way if anyone is needing machine work done, they do awesome work.

Thanks Nic, I just know found out that this computer had my login info saved, but thanks for posting that anyway!

Eric Nichols is a hack! On a sludged up engine with oil starvation problems, he didn't even pull any of the oil galley plugs when he hot tanked it! Stay away! He's an arrogant prick, he does shit work, and refuses to work with me and make it right, I'm not being unreasonable, I ask that he hot tank it again and clean it again for me, and he refused! Said I'm an idiot and I don't know what I'm doing and hung up on me. I should have took one look around his dump of a shop and walked.

It's in Jerry's hands now at engines etc. Hopefully this doesn't hurt the wallet too bad.

Like my Dad always said, everyone f****s up, it's how you handle it that separates the men from the boys!

Sorry to hear about the deal. Machine work is one area that takes time. time=money. My dad was (retired) a very successful machinist. He taught patience to me. for instance... if i loosened a bolt with the open end of a combination wrench he would wait till i got it all the way out, make me tighten it down with the boxed end and take it back off with the boxed end. lol. most shops are not clean, it is dang near impossible to keep them clean (spotless). the area that matters is that his assembly room is clean, and his machines are clean.

sending the crank away to be ground is not uncommon either. It takes a ton of time to grind a crank correctly. if you wanted to start a business, buy a crank grinder and you would never have a slow day. guarantee it. Same thing with head work. takes a ton of time. that is where 60% of your money goes in an engine build is heads.

all frost plugs should be removed. it is very that it gets gone, also oil galley plugs need removed. tapping with a rubber mallet is almost a joke. that is on engine that have had a life of hell and are very corroded. not one that had just been boiled.

All in all Eric is a talented man, but may need to slow down. i personally don't use him as a machinist, but i have seen and dealt with his work... he and i have butted heads before. People never like to admit what they have done wrong; it is hard to admit it. i am guilty myself of that. Personally i would write him a letter letting him know what you think should have been done, and what was not. Let him know you are doing it to better his customer service and his business. wording is key also.

HIVOLTJ wrote:

Like my Dad always said, everyone f****s up, it's how you handle it that separates the men from the boys!

Just happened to me with my tranny. Droped my new direct drum. Damn near broke it in half. Guy didn't want to handle it when he heard it was $150.00.

No one can be 100% with what they do. It is truly how they handle the small percentage of errors or accidents.

I found real quick that high performance stuff in great falls is pretty much non existent. Luckily I found a good machine shop that dose what I want and nothing more. It's nice walking into a machine shop with an intake to be milled and he asks "need your intake milled?" me "yup" him "I spose you know exactly how much I need to take off?" Me "yup .040 off each side". He dose what he is told and nothing more and all is good.

Good luck.....

On a side note, he sends rotating assemblies away to be balanced. he doesn't do them himself. he told this to me on the phone in one of our pissing matches.

I may write him a letter a ways down the road, gonna take some time to calm down, my blood is still boiling. I have a hard time thinking of him as anything more than a hack right now. Properly cleaning the block is one of the simplest, most fundamental things about an engine job. I have done 10x the job he did with a parts washer, brushes, and a pressure washer and air hose. I just pray to god that nothing else was f-ed up, and I don't end up with a huge bill at Jerry's.

He should have f***ing known how important it was that this got cleaned. He knew the motor oil was dirty as crap and the top end had oil starvation! I trusted him to do a simple, simple stock rebuild on a pickup motor, and he f****ed it up. I am so thankful I tried him out with this engine, and not a real performance money-type build. At this point I almost wish I would have tried a junkyard motor, might have been money ahead.

The guy that recommended him to me used to race motorcycles and had him do his stuff. He told me he was "meticulous". About what? Being an asshole? LOL

I have since told the guy who recommended him (not saying it's his fault) And he was pretty taken back by not only the work done, but how I was treated by Eric. Needless to say, he won't be sending anyone else his way, and I'm going to make damn sure all my Auto enthusiast aquaintences do the same.

The thing that really got me about it was his attitude. It's like he couldn't possibly fathom that he could have made a mistake, especially something so basic. He has a really big ego problem, I could tell that even before our little argument. He is god in his own mind.

I know I'm ranting, don't care, it's theraputic!

Novaflash2002 wrote:

On a side note, he sends rotating assemblies away to be balanced. he doesn't do them himself. he told this to me on the phone in one of our pissing matches.

Did you ever get him to make things right? I really don't see the point in talking to him again. Depending on how much more is screwed up I may just be seeing him in court.

i have never had anything machined by Eric. i use Kent at Montana engine re-builders, or my dad lol. A friend has had some machine work done by him, and i noticed some elementary mistakes that he had made, and when i asked him why... he changed the direction of the conversation every time.


... from what i heard he does know what he is doing, but i think that with the economy going down hill he may be trying to get as many jobs as he can... which in turn he makes mistakes. if he had help, or slowed down he would prolly do a great job.

Just heard from Gary at Engines Etc. The block work appears to be "ok". They magna-fluxed the crank and it had been cracked around the oil holes and welded, this would not be Eric's doing, but whatever reman place he gets crank kits from. This is not a good fix and needs to be remedied. They will be grinding me a virgin crank. Also they took all the plugs out of the block that he did not, and the lifter bore oil galleys were all full of shit! So glad I trusted my instincts this time and took it somewhere. The top end would not have lived very long. So, I'll find out what all else is wrong, if anything with the pistons and rods, and then give Mr. Customer Service himself a call and see if I can get some of my money back for the things that have to be re-done.

GL

They moved the thread, so to make sure the link doesn't stop working, I'll just post the content here. So if this sounds repetitive, that is why.


I should have turned around and walked out the minute I set foot in his shop! After seeing how dirty it was in there, I don't know why I expected my engine to come back clean! I had heard good on him from a guy I trusted, won't make that mistake again!

Red Flag #1 - dirty shop, and he was in a hurry to leave at 4:30 on Friday, I didn't get to ask questions and look around like I would have wanted to. He probably had a beer with his name on it somewhere.

Pictures to follow!

I posted a thread on here a while ago about rebuilding the 5.0 in my wife's (92) pickup.
A guy at work who used to race motorcycles recommended ERIC'S CYLINDER SERVICE Out of the Heights in Billings, MT (towards Shepherd).
I took my stuff there about 2 months ago, just the stripped short block. Told him to measure everything and let me know exactly what work needed to be done. I had left the two screw-in coolant plugs and the soft plug behind the upper intake in, one of the screw in plugs head was stripped, and I didn't have time to mess with the other two. After calling him over the period of the next few weeks, he finally called me back and told me everything it needed. He said he gets a "refurbished crank kit" from his parts supplier with bearings and everything, sends old one in for a core. Cylinders need bored .040" over, new pistons pressed onto rods, etc.

Red flag #2 he doesn't grind his own cranks.

Sent him a check for the parts needed, and didn't hear from him again until I called him a few weeks later, he had parts in and sitting there, but hadn't had time to get to it yet. He finally called a few weeks later and told me it was done, it was $40 or so more for the labor than what he quoted me, but I thought "Oh hell, it's just $40, no big deal, he probably forgot something on the first quote"

I know, I've cut the ####er too much slack already. So now I have a little more time when I pick up my stuff, I ask him about doing a set of heads for my Lightning, if I get some bare aluminums and have him do the valve job. He starts telling me about some "E-force" aluminum heads, how great they are blah blah, Trick Flows are no better, just more money, so I look at them on a 347 he's building (they are procomps), and they are ####, I don't have to look any further than the exhaust ports and valve cover rails to see what an ill-machined piece of #### they are. It also had an edelbrock carb, on an H/C/I 347 :rofl:. Told him I would do a custom cam with the heads on the Lightning, he says "What? those are a waste!" I tell him about the Speed Density on the Lightning, need a tame idle, etc. He tells me to "Put a carb on it so I can run a real cam!" LOL.

Well, the dude is stuck in the 70's and can't build a performance motor to save his life, alright. Hopefully the stock rebuild on this 5.0 is alright! Yes, I'm reaching at this point.

When I ask him how much HP the 347 would be making, he quoted desktop dyno numbers(like they were gospel), I had a hard time not busting out laughing.

The block didn't look super clean when we loaded it up, still had a little paint towards the bottom side, they are usually a lot cleaner when I get them, but didn't think much of it, but made a mental note to check everything really well when I got home.


P.S. Red flag #3 also this whole time I'm overlooking what an arrogant #### he is any time I ask him a question.

So fast forward a few weeks, After getting a few side jobs out of my garage, I finally have time to start putting this engine together. I get it up on the stand, and notice the pipe plug in the side of the block is the stripped-out headed mother ####er I dropped it off with! I pound a hex socket into it until it bites, and turn it out. What do I see but a little pile of rusty #### behind it, so I take the one on the other side out, same thing. Put my air nozzle in the hole and blow, black turds come raining out of the coolant ports in the deck all over the floor. At this point I turn it over and notice that the plug in the rear china wall is still original, they never pulled that out either! Boy I'm glad I removed all the oil galley plugs except that one! ####er woulda really been dirty!

Now here I am with machined, (poorly) cleaned block with cam bearing and freeze plugs installed. The coolant passages are dirty as ####, I can wipe my finger in them and it comes out black. The oil passages (which I'm more concerned about) appear clean, but I can't really tell without taking all the plugs and cam bearings back out.

So I call the ##########, eh-hem, I mean Eric, because I thought he was a one man show, but when I picked up my parts he had another guy assembling. You never know right? His helper may be doing a #### job and he doesn't even know? I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Called him this morning, told him about all the #### in the coolant passages, (I was very cool-headed and polite, at first) he was pretty cool at first, said I needed to tap on the block with a mallet and blow it out with air. I asked him why it wasn't clean when I got it back, and if they hot tanked it, did they rinse it after and use brushes? (He starts getting pissy right here, building to a temper tantrum) He says yes of course, the scale in the coolant passages sometimes won't come out until it dries, and that's what happened here. I tell him I'm concerned about the other work performed if they can't handle properly cleaning the block? I ask him what the hell kind of cleaning job he expects to get if all the plugs aren't even taken out? I tell him this isn't my first rodeo, and I've never gotten an engine back from machining like this. He asks "Why I'm calling then? he said he'll tap the stuff out if I bring it to him, I tell him I want it hot tanked again, the right way, and that's when he starts to pop a seam, asks if I'm "Just calling to be a crybaby then?" and says "I don't know what I'm doing", (and the one thing he was right about, that I'm "An idiot!" a few other choice words and hangs up.

Yes, as he said, I am an idiot, I should have walked at the first sign of trouble.

I'll post some pics when I get home, again, if anyone wants some ####ty, half-assed work that probably won't make it 500 miles, call up

ERIC'S CYLINDER SERVICE
BILLINGS, MT
406-670-9723

Talk to the head ######## yourself!
When I post up pics we'll talk about WTF I'm going to do with this block also.


Here's the rear oil galley plug that he never removed! Come to think of it, he didn't remove any plugs from the block at all! The only ones out were the ones I took out before I brought it to him! I didn't have a drill and screw handy to pull this one out, and trusted he would before hot tanking the block! What a ####ing scab! Based on how dirty the inside of that motor was, I bet there is all kinds of nastiness behind here, he probably added some grit from his tank to it also! HACK!



ALL the cylinders have these very light scratches? WTF? maybe he test fit the pistons? I can't catch a nail on them or feel them, they are all in the same spot



crap behind the coolant plugs that were never removed





grease around the dipstick hole, it doesn't look any cleaner right here than when I dropped it off.



coolant port plugs that were never taken out, #### caked on the back





bag of the #### that blew out of the deck when I put the air to the coolant port.

the light scratches in the cylinders is from either his dial bore gauge,or telescoping gauges. that's a ton o shit you pulled out.

LOL, his first suggestion to me was to "clean it myself", my first question to him was "Why wasn't it cleaned properly before I got it back?" That's just the bag of shit that came out of the coolant passages, I have a similar bag from the lifter bore passages. This motor would not have made it 50 miles.

+1 for Engines Etc. This is the only place I take my stuff and they do a stand up job. My father-in-law (Brothers Wives Father) runs Hartung Machine and he also does and excellent job. Before I put the Dragon back together Norm dipped my heads in his tank overnight and they came out amazing. Engines Etc took .040 off the tops of my pistons and they also cleaned my block. Gary and Jerry do a great job and they have MANY years of working on race motors, especially circle track builds.

Two great machine shops for those who need service.

Glad too see you found your login info Josh.

BlueSteel wrote:

Glad too see you found your login info Josh.

Thanks for posting the thread in the mean time, I appreciate it!

Eric is a jackoff.

Well thats a bad deal. i have also used eric before. the work he did for my was good. but also there where a few things wrong. we caught the problems before firing the engine and eric fixed the problem. he made it right with me and ill leave it at that.

wow seems like a great idea to stay away from this guy

Yeah Shawn, of course it was all your fault, you're an idiot! Just like it's my fault that there was a ton of shit left in my motor, and the crank is cracked so far. Waiting on pins and needles to find out what else he fucked up! I'll give him one chance to refund my money for the shit that has to be re-done, if not I'll take his ass to court. I'm not as forgiving as some people are. He can take his crank back and shove it up his ass for all I care!


I almost, and I mean if I wasn't so broke I would have had him assemble the short-block, because I don't have much time right now to do it myself. God what a disaster that would have been! Wouldn't have made it out of the fucking driveway!

I'm so glad I tried him out on this motor, and not a serious build! This motor is just for my wife's beater pickup, not the Lightning.

Holy crap, scary stories, and numerous ones at that. I find it crazy that this guy had never worked on an LS block until yours, Shawn. I mean, who hasn't?

Well, just heard from Gary this afternoon, everything else checks out OK. Bore & hone, connecting rods and pistons are all fine, they had to press the pins out and measure the small end also to be sure the fit was good. I guess I'll have to eat those charges, but at least now I KNOW it's right.

So, looks like all Eric is responsible for is the Crank, plugs and cam bearings, and cleaning the block. I'll see if he'll refund my money for that stuff if I give his junk crank and bearing kit back. I'll let you know how that goes.

Talked to Mr. cocksucker this morning, told him I want a refund for the crank kit, cleaning, soft plugs, and cam bearings. He says I'm "still being an idiot", and that's not gonna happen. LOL, he said all the cranks are cracked like that around the main journal oil holes, what a fucking hack. Told him about the baggie of shit that came out of the "clean" engine, he just ignored it. Small claims court here we come!

LOL, he called me back and left a message right before lunch. Said I was "too quick to hang up", and the reman crank place already tossed my core, but he'd take his shit crank back and refund my money and core, and give me another core. I'm kicking it around. I don't know how anyone can tolerate his arrogant ass!

well i hope he makes it even with you. that would be the right thing to do. the thing is i like eric as a person. he has never really done anything to me personally. i . i just dont care for what he did to my stuff. but at this point for me thats water under the bridge. i have seen some nice stuff come out of his shop. like chris said i think he just has a lot on his plate and needs another hand or needs to slow down a bit.

u know its to bad he cant read this thread. might give him a wake up call . word gets around fast in this town

shawnss wrote:

well i hope he makes it even with you. that would be the right thing to do. the thing is i like eric as a person. he has never really done anything to me personally.. i just dont care for what he did to my stuff. but at this point for me thats water under the bridge.

Wish I could say the same. He's an asshole if I've ever met one. The most condescending prick I've talked to in a long time. Talks to me like I just don't know what I'm doing and have never built a fucking engine before. Part of me wants him to find this, and the other part hopes his business just gradually declines to nothing, and he's left wondering why? I've been working in shops for the last 10 years almost, and I know people fuck-up, I've done so my self. Like I said it's all in how you handle it.

I really think he has some emotional/mental issues. I think he maybe even believes most of the bullshit that he says. When I told him the crank was cracked around the oil holes, his response was (they're all like that!) Really? You expect me to believe that? It's fine? But now you'll take it back though, riiiiiigghht.

I'd maybe even go as far as to say he's a pathological liar

Well, I got my money back from him for the crank kit +my core money back, and also another core crank to be machined at the second shop. It was an early 28oz imbalance, two-piece rear main seal crank though.

Ford guys should know what I'm talking about, this crank is useless to me.

Oh well, close enough, I'll chalk the other $100 or so up to a good lesson learned and leave it at that. I can't figure out though, if the wrong crankshaft he gave me was just another F-U, or if he is really too stupid to tell the difference between them. I could tell in my dealings with him that he doesn't know shit about small-block Ford motors.

Here's what the prick looks like, if anyone sees him walking around and wants to kick him in the nuts!

Gary called me this AM, motor and heads are done, I'll go pick them up Tuesday morning, hopefully I can get my wife's beater put back together in time to put the Lightning away for winter!