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 Methanol

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hammond22
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PostSubject: Methanol   February 8th 2012, 12:20 pm

Does anyone know who sells methanol in town?
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 8th 2012, 12:28 pm

Windshield washer fluid... Check it out. And before I get flamed, I'm just stating that it CAN work if used in the correct application and if the mixture is right. Google it.


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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 8th 2012, 1:27 pm

You can buy it at Sherwin Williams. I myself don't recommend this as to me its a bandaid type fix. If you want more power run race gas, or just get a good tune and be happy with the power you have. Its not hard to make 400+ on 91 octane with the appropriate mods.

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 8th 2012, 1:35 pm

Drw performance. Highway 312 past the heights. Sells in 55 gal drums if not bring your own gas can to put it in.
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 8th 2012, 9:36 pm

I think the Neibauer's can get it too, but don't quote me on that.
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 12:29 pm

Ts41 I can see where ur coming from but this car makes over 500... 641whp on race fuel with the Meth that is y I'm looking for it ....
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 4:13 pm

Were you planning on getting meth or do you already have the setup installed? I have been down this road and let me tell ya it was a waste of time. My car actually runs better on 91 octane than it did on the meth. Yes, I had my timing tables much more advanced than they are now, but my car pulls much harder with a strong mixture of straight air and gas.

I was using -20* washer fluid and it worked ok. Might have better results with straight meth. I had the AIS kit.

The only thing that I really liked about the kit was the green reverse lights flashing when the pump started. LOL.

Oh yeah and using washer fluid only equates to about a 95 octane IIRC, been a few years.

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 4:16 pm

What the hell do you have under the hood of that thing, a twin 35r setup?

I have about every mod known to man on my car and I bet it runs just over 400WHP (520 to the flywheel). Flywheel # based on the 30% drivetrain loss.

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 4:17 pm

You got a dyno sheet for this bad Sally?
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 4:21 pm

Dont want this to turn into a cock measuring contest, but I am almost positive that would run in the 10s with that kind of HP. Give me the mod list and I will tell you where you are sitting HP wise (Estimated).

Unlike most people I have had my car since her inception and been through every mod. I have a pretty good idea of what mod does what.

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 4:26 pm

I want to see the sheet from that 500+ pull.
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 4:29 pm

I dont wanna turn it into a cock measuring contest either - I truly just wanna see the sheet to see what the curve looks like.
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 4:48 pm

I will back up what jason said the meth injection is just a band aid fix for a problem. You are out of fuel and should look at upgrading injectors and fuel pump before going and messing with meth injection.

I would also like to hear more about this build!!
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 5:04 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 5:05 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 5:15 pm

There's the link world one built it in Seattle Phil grabow with element tuning tuned it the dyno is on the link
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 5:25 pm

A few things have changed the stock sti spoiler is back on and IV just about got the interior put back in ....it was stripped it was built for time attack racing
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 5:30 pm

An the Turbo is element tunings gt65 ...from what I'm understanding it is a hybrid Turbo.. still journal bearing also it is also on a rotated t3/t4 mount also... I'm running eboost 2 for tuning and the hydra ems stand alone
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 5:39 pm

Well done... silent
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 6:01 pm

I would completely get rid of the meth system, unless you are running a flow failsafe for it. Even then it's still sketch.
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 6:15 pm

It is supposed to have a boost kick down
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 7:03 pm

wow nice ride. looks like a beast. is this car located in billings mt?

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 7:11 pm

Yes
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 9:06 pm

Call 652-1689 during the week days 8-4pm if you are serious. I dont know if any is in stock right now i can look tomorrow. But we will be taking orders a month or so before race seaon. We sell VP it is prolly one of the most expensive brands of fuel but you get what you pay for. We sell it either by gallon if you bring your own jugs or by the barrel 55gal. have you looked into running other race fuels besides meth? look on vpracing's website they make some nice fuels
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 10th 2012, 11:41 pm

Very good numbers! Were these corrected or uncorrected numbers? Elevation? Either way, probably one of the most powerful Subarus in your state!

The fail safe I was referring to uses a flow meter, which is the only real safe way to detect a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 8:20 am

EGJDM wrote:
I will back up what jason said the meth injection is just a band aid fix for a problem. You are out of fuel and should look at upgrading injectors and fuel pump before going and messing with meth injection.

I would also like to hear more about this build!!

I disagree with both jason and you..... Meth isnt for running out of injector or fuel, it can be used to (this is the easiest way for me to say it) to make your fuel a higher octain when used at that moment... correctly. I don't know where you guys buy fuel but i like driving my cars a lot. I don't think there is a station in billings that i can say "hey where is the 105?". And i also know there are no stations in the 300 mile radius that do either legally with road tax lol. thats where 91 and meth injection come in handy.

Now if e85 were avail it would be a whole different story. Im planning on moving to great falls for the company that i am with within the next few months, and from my research there are 2 places in GF that sell e85.



By the way that is a Sick sti!
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 8:51 am

Yes you are correct the benefits are cooler intake temps higher octane and it allows for higher boost there are other positives as well
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 9:44 pm

a better intercooler and higher grade fuel would solve both those problems also...
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 9:50 pm

Yes but I have that .... an the methanol is on the race fuel map pump also ...I'm running 1000cc injectors a1000 pump with surge tank upgraded fuel rails also
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 9:51 pm

Meth water injection also cleans out carbon deposits in an engine
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 9:57 pm

1000s are tiny these days lol, must be id"s if that car makes over 600 on a single set of 1000s, its got a badass fuel pump but those injectors must be close to maxed unless the base pressure is turned up something fierce!
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 10:08 pm

Yeah its a big ass pump and it is only conservativly tuned
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 10:12 pm

cool, you going to drag this setup this season?
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 10:17 pm

Ha I dunno hopefully should run 10s
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 10:34 pm

should bring it out to the track in april, would be interesting to see an awd with that amount of hp in town
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 11th 2012, 10:58 pm

The absolute best way to take care of a fueling issue is to run a larger injector and/or proper fuel. Methanol works, yes, but as stated it is simply a band-aid and even with fail safes has a higher margin of error/danger to your engine than if you were to compensate using race fuel...

And of those two stations in Great Falls, one is on the base - so unless you know someone that could pose a problem.

Also, the other is a distributor and I don't believe they sell it at a pump, they sell it in barrels from what I understand and I don't know if they sell it to the public. Hopefully they do, because that'd work out great!

Now if we could only find someone relatively close that sells E98...
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 10:37 am

That sounds like quite the monster. My goal is to hit about 500WHP, but I am too much of a 'MARY' to turn the boost up.

Our setups are pretty much identical as I have an A1000 and ID1000s. It works very well. Congrats.

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 10:49 am

i dont get where you guys automatically think he is running out of injector. his meth is used for octain boosting, not more fuel. its like having a car detonate on 87... then running 91 and it doesn't.

Ive been down the road with meth on 2 other cars. when used properly it is the best thing since canned beer. it looks like many are trying to use it as a bandaid....... instead of the way it is intended to use.


Yes u can buy it at the pump, and yes i have my way on the base to buy it also for the e85 bit.
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 10:52 am

I think he has plenty of injector. The ID1000s will flow more with more pressure/voltage. You get get them up to 1600cc IIRC depending on how much pressure you run. And the A1000 is plenty of pump as it flows 600lph. Much better than running the paired Walbro setup.

According to the chart 'IF' I ever get my car turned up to 30psi I should be able to run close to 1300cc, which is a lot.

ID1000 specs

Plenty of injector and pump.

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 11:04 am

I'm also still trying to get the race fuel map ....right now on the eboost2 I have three steps which boost and fuel increase the methanol system is aquamist
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 3:23 pm

What are you running for max boost and what do you have for internals?

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 4:14 pm

On pump 27psi race fuel is over 30... boost by gear also ... cp pistons cosworth main bearings oil pump stage 2 cams rods
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 4:17 pm

Element Tuning Hydra Element Tuning Hydramist Element Tuning Rotated GT65 turbo kit TurboXS FMIC painted black Koyo Radiator CP 1mm Overbore Pistons Cosworth Rods Cosworth Main and Rod Bearings Cosworth Oil Pump Cosworth Cams Cosworth Headstud Kit Cosworth Valve Spring Set Brian Crower Titanium Retainer Set Ultimate Racing 1000cc Injector and Fuel Rail Kit Element Tuning Fuel Surge Tank Aeromotive A1000 Fuel Pump Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Regulator Gruppe-S Equal Length Header Element Tuning Turboback Exhaust Turbosmart Ultragate 38mm Wastegate Turbosmart Megasonic BOV Cusco Engine and Transmission Mounts ACT 6-Puck Unsprung Clutch
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 7:19 pm

27psi on pump gas you're a brave man. Wink What are your AIT like at that boost level?
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 7:25 pm

Ha I haven't ran the third step yet
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 7:46 pm

Chris I didn't say anything about the injectors running out, I just don't like the inconsistency of most Meth setups and the corrosive issues. e85, methanol, e98, nitromethane all eat the ******** outta oil. Unless you spend 60$ an oil change on some joe gibbs racing oil or some other racing oil with zinc and phosphorus addatives and addatives to be compatible with the fuel you're running. Running that fuel also reduces oil change interval. I was just saying I am old fashion and like to keep things simple. The more systems the more potential for issues. There certainly are some advantages from Meth but I was commenting assuming his car was a simple setup of bolt ons. I will always chose less systems when possible. If you run meth tuned properly and with no issues good for you. I'd rather pay a little extra for race gas and have less systems and wiring. If I needed Meth injection I would be using a separate fuel rail/injectors and a factory style pump, but I'll probably never have anything that needs it.

I tried big concentrations of toluene. Big concentrations of xyelene. The high toulene, xyelene mixtures were really hard to light off. We did some passes, and had misfires. Drained the fuel put in C16 and they went away.

Best results I had were C16. For as little as you will actually use C16, run it when you have to. I'd run C16 when you need it and lower boost and pump for daily. No one needs that kind of power to daily drive.

I agree Chris many use it as a bandaid, they use pump gas tunes maxed out and then add meth hoping it will survive. I think this is why I made the comments I did. I still would do things differently but his setup looks cool and I can't wait to see it run.

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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 12th 2012, 7:48 pm

Here's my comments from a year or so ago about water/meth kits:

meth/water inj sucks a donkey ********. all these spray systems are bandaids to people trying to get away with pump gas fuel and race gas performance. and then they dont want to dyno it to make sure its right.

have you ever seen what meth/water inj does to a power curve? its absolutely horrid makes it look like theres no timing. and dont even try to tell me that you have to add timing when you shoot the stuff. horse ********. methanol, ethanol, alcohol all burn FASTER than pump gas. meaning unless you want sandblasted pistons and broken ringlands you should retard timing.

Here is some data from the guy that tuned my car:

my e85 all motor ka runs 19degrees timing for full power.
my 100 octane all motor ka runs 27 degrees for full power.

these are some more examples of what i'm talking about.

another example a 2.6liter H22 i built for a customer we tuned on 3 different fuels
93 octane (hate life) 21 degrees
100octane 27 degrees
e85 9 degrees

270wheel hp

MRD shop owners 2.3 Bseries 270whp
100octane 28 degrees
e85 19 degrees


the only spraying of any kind of stuff i'd do is denatured alcohol. DO NOT DO NOT tune the alcohol to the desired a/f level. stoich point of alky is like 7:1 so if you tune the car with alky to 11:1 then motor's actual lambda is alot leaner

tune the car to normal desired a/f or lamda for its application then add the alky and go the desired amount of boost above WHAT IS RECOMENDED for pump gas.

I am not knocking Brandon's car as I said above it looks like a cool setup and seems to work great. Really impressive for sure. I hadn't looked at the curve but as you can see from the curve a lot more power could be made with a few simple changes. The Tq drops just like my comments said last year.

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Location : Great Falls, MT

PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 13th 2012, 4:08 pm

ts4l wrote:
Chris I didn't say anything about the injectors running out, I just don't like the inconsistency of most Meth setups and the corrosive issues. e85, methanol, e98, nitromethane all eat the ******** outta oil. Unless you spend 60$ an oil change on some joe gibbs racing oil or some other racing oil with zinc and phosphorus addatives and addatives to be compatible with the fuel you're running. Running that fuel also reduces oil change interval.


I wonder how factory cars are running 300,000 + miles with e85 and not running joe gibbs oil.............

It sounds as if someone is having a valve seal and ring seating issues if they have problems like that.



I can see your points, but i have seen several (built few) that when the meth or alky system is done correct is great. its a cost effective in my book. Yes better fuel is prolly the easiest solution but far from the cheapest if you drive the car often.




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Flaminghellcat
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PostSubject: Re: Methanol   February 17th 2012, 12:51 am

ts4l wrote:
Here's my comments from a year or so ago about water/meth kits:

meth/water inj sucks a donkey ********. all these spray systems are bandaids to people trying to get away with pump gas fuel and race gas performance. and then they dont want to dyno it to make sure its right.

have you ever seen what meth/water inj does to a power curve? its absolutely horrid makes it look like theres no timing. and dont even try to tell me that you have to add timing when you shoot the stuff. horse ********. methanol, ethanol, alcohol all burn FASTER than pump gas. meaning unless you want sandblasted pistons and broken ringlands you should retard timing.

Best results I had were C16. For as little as you will actually use C16, run it when you have to. I'd run C16 when you need it and lower boost and pump for daily. No one needs that kind of power to daily drive.

After about a 20,000 mile summer on traveling on this engine. I recentlly tore down my 5.0 stroker 4.6 modular and was looking for wear from my meth setup. Didn't find any sandblasted pistons or broken ringlands. It still had the hone inside all the cylinders, pistons and heads look good. I tore it down for a problem I was running into, which I found out was the rockers/followers were falling off and when the engine would cool off they would reseat themselves. So the ported PI heads are off and are being sent to where I had them machined for service(possibly changing over to some trick flow heads). I do agree with that it does wear down the oil quickly and did change it fequently. I used a Mr. Freeze setup and found after a lot of trial and error, that I had to use the smallest nozzel for my setup. It made a big diffrence with the ATI's and was filling up the little tank less often. I am a firm belever in using meth and properly setup it works great, so it was part of my supercharger setup(not a bandaid). I am building for a turbo setup this summer and will start with a intercooler and will try some meth also. For me running C16 wouldn't be a viable option as far as cost and convience. I never run on the drag strip, I stay on the street. So I need that kind of power for my daily drives lol.

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