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 Air Fuel Ratio

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Flaminghellcat
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PostSubject: Air Fuel Ratio   October 4th 2012, 3:13 am

I have a good topic for everyone. What is your target Air Fuel Ratio for your car and what are you using to tune your engine? I was just thinking what everyone else is using these days. It could be N/A, forced induction, turbo, supercharged, NO2....

I was just thinking it because I just finished my new setup (just in time for winter) and am in the process of tuning my car. I may have to wait for some warmer weather to start tuning because of the 100% humidity right now, not the ideal conditions. I am using a Innovate log chain - two LC-1s, DS-32, LM-2 and the logworks program to tune my car. An Anderson PMS Series 4 Piggyback computer to control my ECU.

I had a few hours to shake a few bugs out and did a little test run yesterday. I did take my time setting it up so I would get a nice smooth idle. Other than the nice idle she was running fat! Like mostly in the 10.1 and low 9.1s when I was in boost. I could see black whiffs of unburned fuel when I would change gear. I am sure this is from the new injectors it has now (60lb for the upcoming turbo). I did get to try out my 2-step and talk about big flames popping out the back! I could see them in my rear view mirror I know they huge hehe! I need a few good hours of good weather and a driver for some forth gear pulls, so I can sit in the passenger seat so and tune.

I was looking an a few different forums and most said 12.5 - 12 to 1 for N/A and 11.5 - 10.8 to one for forced induction. I have always tune on the safe side in the high 10s and low 11s for my setup.



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ZipDriveX
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 4th 2012, 12:58 pm

Here's a link I started when I first go into tuning, might have some helpful info n it Smile

http://www.maecforum.com/t679-wideband-tuning-basics

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Flaminghellcat
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 4th 2012, 5:14 pm

I was more interested on what people are using on this forum. Like yours ZipDriveX?
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ZipDriveX
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 4th 2012, 8:58 pm

I use the 034 Motorsports secondary injector controller

http://www.maecforum.com/t19-034-efi-secondary-injector-controller

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Boostnek6206
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 4th 2012, 9:08 pm

I got AEM v2 on its way for my car.
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 5th 2012, 12:18 am

^Bingo. I've got AEM V2 for mine.

You should put that thing on a dyno and tune it (not for the numbers, but to see what the engine/car wants)

A dyno is an amazing tool if you know how to use it properly (not saying I do, but I can point you in the right direction of someone who does). Street tunes work good, but to get the most potential it should be put on some rollers...
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Flaminghellcat
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 5th 2012, 8:34 am

I would like to but it seems when a dyno is available I am not. When I lived in Denver there was one just down the street. But now I never know when I am gonna get some time off, I am working in the oilfield. So my only option is to run the 4th gear pulls.

My setup is a 5.0 stroker modular ford with a Vortech V1-S supercharger. I mainly had my heads repaired and stepped up to a stage 2 port. The stoker block was fine and I am reusing my same (very mild) supercharger cam. I thought I blew up my engine last year and finally figured out that the followers on my heads were faulty. They would fall out of place between my cam and springs. Which sounded like a engine with a cylinder out. Oddly enough when the engine would cool they would go back into place which had me puzzled for a long time because It would run fine after a cool down.

I did a little tuning yesterday afternoon and have in running pretty good now. The AFR is still in the 10.1 to 10.8 according to the datalogger but I am ok with that for now. Hopefully we'll get some warmer weather and can fine tune it,
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 11th 2012, 1:32 pm

As ProOnThaSnow stated every car is gonna be different and stuff like weather the car is on pump gas or race fuel somes into play!! Dyno is always the best to see what the car wants cause you can see a result from trying different a/f ratios. If I only option is a street tune I would stay conservative side some where between 11.2 - 11.5 in boost. On my drag car on race gas really likes about 12.5:1 at about 20ish psi lol !!!
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Novaflash2002
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 11th 2012, 6:19 pm

for a N/a ls series I like the wot to run from 12.5-12.8. for some reason, (only the ls3) likes 13.0's

Turbo ls series like s11.0-11.6 (depending on heads and the amount of timing you like)

a centrifical blower 11.3-11.6

Magnusson's like 11.4-11.7

whipples like 11.4-11.7

the new efoce's like 10.8-11.2 (unusual beings its a maggie flipped upside down, i think it has to deal with longer ports.)

Ive used a few AEM's, LM1's, LC1's, glow shift, and PLX's. My apsoulte favorite, and the most accurate on i like and use now is an NGK AFX. Has the most uptodate accute sensor on the market right now. Hinson supercars has them onsale now with the latest sensor.

http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/p-946-ngk-powerdex-afx-wideband-kit.aspx

I Use VCM suite by hptuners the most right now. Ive used tweecer, and tuner cat; but i like to stick to the newer gm stuff so Vcm i have the most hours with

Most of those A/F'r are baised off of a max timing situation. I have found more timing and a tad lower a/f last longer and make more power than less timing higher a/f
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 11th 2012, 7:24 pm

Stock internal 4G63 on 91 pump @ 26.X PSI - 11.2:1 AFR at peak timing.
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 12th 2012, 3:07 am

Novaflash2002 wrote:
for a N/a ls series I like the wot to run from 12.5-12.8. for some reason, (only the ls3) likes 13.0's

Turbo ls series like s11.0-11.6 (depending on heads and the amount of timing you like)

a centrifical blower 11.3-11.6

Magnusson's like 11.4-11.7

whipples like 11.4-11.7

the new efoce's like 10.8-11.2 (unusual beings its a maggie flipped upside down, i think it has to deal with longer ports.)

Ive used a few AEM's, LM1's, LC1's, glow shift, and PLX's. My apsoulte favorite, and the most accurate on i like and use now is an NGK AFX. Has the most uptodate accute sensor on the market right now. Hinson supercars has them onsale now with the latest sensor.

http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/p-946-ngk-powerdex-afx-wideband-kit.aspx

I Use VCM suite by hptuners the most right now. Ive used tweecer, and tuner cat; but i like to stick to the newer gm stuff so Vcm i have the most hours with

Most of those A/F'r are baised off of a max timing situation. I have found more timing and a tad lower a/f last longer and make more power than less timing higher a/f

Ok spent a few hours tuning today. I took your(novaflash 2002) afr #s for the centrifical and started a new tune. I have the option for up to 3 diffrent tunes. I was borrowing a g-force meter from a buddy. The first tune is a the one I made last week and it's a very consecutive tune. The next one is the for a 91 octane with a octane booster and stays between 11.2 - 11.8 and more timing. The g-meter says I am making about 25-30 HP compared to the first tune. It was a pretty big difference especially in the higher RPM's. The dataloger looks really good and there are no signs of detonation, So I had some motorsport 109 fuel started building a tune for it. Made 4 low RPM part throttle pulls and was ready for a higher WOT pull. So I had it in 3rd gear and I watched the tach clime to just past 6500 then click click click BOOM! My first thought was the engine but after pulling over and the rear end was done. We didn't check the g-meter but I have to say we were pulling harder then it ever had. Looking at the datalogger, we were staying around 9.8 - 10.5 so there was still more improvements to be made. Now I have to save up for a another stronger rearend. To be continued....

I do have another question for everyone. I there a local race gas dealer? I ordered mine from the internet and had to ship in by truck freight.
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 12th 2012, 7:31 am

Make sure from 91 to the jump to 109 to add a couple degrees of timing. Guys forget that it takes longer to burn and u actually lose power unless u add timing. All my afr #s are for ls series engines so dont of of them as a wrtten law. What works for one setup isnt always the same for another.

If your not breaking stuff.... your not pushing it hard enuf!
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Novaflash2002
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 12th 2012, 7:36 am

Call nate 698-3057 for race fuel. He will hook you up.
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jdmsolutions
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 12th 2012, 4:52 pm

Neibauers also sell vp, 652-1689
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 12th 2012, 5:54 pm

If you buy any from Neibauers - I run back and forth to ND all the time for work and for a small fee I'd be willing to deliver it to you to save you the trip over to Billings.
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 15th 2012, 4:56 pm

Call Ken Neibauer at 652-1689 8am-5pm he doesnt do shipping but like snow said he'd maybe deliver for you. He is cheaper than Nate I am pretty sure. Be worth calling for price quote anyways!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 15th 2012, 7:23 pm

Ill bet Nate and i Blow the doors off of Neibauer. for price.....
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 15th 2012, 9:02 pm

I know a guy that works at Honda and Marine and he comes to us to buy race fuel............

Either way to the OP I'd just call both places and get their quotes and go to whomever is more appealing to you.
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 15th 2012, 11:22 pm

I would call both jakes dad ken and nate.
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PostSubject: Re: Air Fuel Ratio   October 19th 2012, 1:33 pm

Well I found a rearend replacement off of a another mustang. I can tell right off the bat is that it has much shorter gearset. I did turn the driveshaft and count how many times the wheels turn. I think it may be 4.11 gearing. I had a 2.76. It does have a limited slip but I have no idea what kind. I am gonna tear it down this weekend and see whats all in it as well as replace all the bearings and seals, look at what gearing it has and see if it need to be upgraded to a locker. The locker I used last time was a detoit trutrac but this time I am gonna go with a stonger detroit locker. But won't make any WOT runs till I finish the rear.

I think I will give those guys a call when I need it. I have 3/4 full 55 gallon drum of motorsport 109 right now. But that would save me a day of waiting at home missing work and the $$$$ shipping cost from truck freight. I bet I am paying at least an extra $100-150 more for a barrel. Thanks guys.
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