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 i need e85!!!

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ProOnThaSnow
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 23rd 2011, 10:40 am

Corn is for eating, not burning. Run oil based fuels, and support my job. Smile
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Riptide
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 23rd 2011, 11:57 am

More than a few force fed mustangs running around on E85 right now and not having any issues. Street driven cars with gobs of power. Of course they put the work and money in to upgrade the injectors, fuel pump(s), and got a professional tune.

Do it right or don't do it at all.
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Dr.Auto
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 23rd 2011, 12:24 pm

ProOnThaSnow wrote:
Corn is for eating, not burning. Run oil based fuels, and support my job. Smile

lol!
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ts4l
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 23rd 2011, 2:57 pm

The comments I am making are not stuff I am reading on-line I have helped people tune their cars on E85, and unless I read what you have been saying you are not yet running e85. So wouldn't you be the one not sharing actual first hand knowledge? I have worked on, tuned and worked on timing maps for e85 cars. As well as done testing and research on it for the past 6 years. I am not going off what some forum says most of which is full of people that haven't used it. This is first hand knowledge, and also sales of e85 and race fuels. Both from the same company so why would they steer people towards race gas? I have read a lot on forums like EFI101 and others and talked to tuners from Cobb, AMS, Enthalpy, Dynocomp and they all back up what I have seen on the dyno and what Jonathan is commenting above.

I'm not telling anyone to avoid e85, just that I don't think its the best option. If it works for someone's goals then go for it. But if you want the best performance possible race fuel will never be beat by e85.

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Dr.Auto
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 23rd 2011, 4:58 pm

ts4l wrote:
I'm not telling anyone to avoid e85, just that I don't think its the best option. If it works for someone's goals then go for it. But if you want the best performance possible race fuel will never be beat by e85.

Very well said Jason..... I would call that a wrap.

Did I mention that running E10 in my daily drivers stinks? ...... really.... it stinks..... like smelly. Not like plain gasoline. I know it sounds kinda corny. But that's what I've noticed. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 23rd 2011, 6:43 pm

EGJDM wrote:
Jason is correct if you talk to most tuners E85 will only take slightly more timing then pump and no where near the timing that can be added on race fuel.
It is not only a case of just getting 30% bigger injectors and your good to go! In a performance application E85 will demand more then just 30% bigger injectors, you will need a pump as well. Case and point say take a honda that has a walbro intank pump and 1000cc injectors this fuel system is realiable to say 600-650whp. Put E85 in that same car and now because of increased fuel needed you only have a fuel system only good to 400-450whp. Which would account for 30% decrease in amount of power that can be made. And the only way to bring the car back to the power level that it was before would be to go to a second fuel pump or larger pump and increasing injector size once again!

Just so I get this right and on the same page.. When you say "takes slightly more timing". This is to the max power? Could throw more at it but reduction in power will follow not necessarily detonation?
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ts4l
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 23rd 2011, 9:20 pm

Depends on if its a knock limited engine, many engines like for instance a Subaru sti motor. They are not knock limited and so either with pump or e85 they will take more timing without knocking. However they won't make any more power and it would be wise to run less timing and have the same power but be farther from the detonation threshold.

A knock limited engine will allow slightly more timing with e85 before knocking. This mayl make the power difference, or people will run the same timing they run with pump gas but with higher boost. Also resulting typically with more power, more boost more power not a big surprise there. Its always best to run as little timing as needed to get the max power or MBT. Race fuel burns slower allowing more timing to get combustion at the perfect point, e85 burns faster hence why you have to run less timing to get it to combust at the same point. Every engine is different and has a different VE so the amount of timing will very, other factors like combustion chamber shape will also make a difference. If the combustion chambers have corners then e85 may help because of its cooling effect, this will allow a little more timing than pump gas. That cooling effect is usually the difference that allows the slight increase in timing over pump gas. Due to the burn rate though e85 typically will not be anywhere near the amount of timing, boost or power of Race gas. Much like DSM tuners have done for years a lot of people run e85, then less timing/more fuel and run more boost. This will make more power but very inefficiently. You'd be better off running lower boost, better AFR's and timing and making the same power.

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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 23rd 2011, 10:11 pm

Well Jason,

That is a whole lot of good made up mumbo jumbo. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 24th 2011, 10:53 am

Thats good stuff.. Too many people are in the mind set of the more timing the better. When the goal is to time the combustion process to exert the most power/acceleration on the piston.. I know it isn't as easy as that but it is the end goal.

cheers
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   February 24th 2011, 11:40 am

Agreed, I see so many people being proud of running more timing with a street tune and probably having no idea they are overtimed and seeing no real benefit. That's part of why I explained that the way I did, I know more than a few people on here that do their own tuning that are always after the most timing without any idea of when they reach MBT.

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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   October 15th 2013, 5:05 pm

I am sorry to bring this back from the dead, but I get a sense that there is this huge division on whether ethanol is worth it. Bottom line is, you can make more power with ethanol. If you look at the stoichiometry, BTU value, cooling effects, and additional compression or boost, you will get more power. Now is the additional power worth the hassle? To each their own. Are there better ways to spend your money and make additional power? To each their own. If you don't believe that you can make more power with ethanol, let me know if you would like to see the calculations.
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   October 15th 2013, 8:53 pm

i need e85... like to get her back on the rollers.
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PostSubject: Re: i need e85!!!   October 16th 2013, 9:17 am

I can say that my views have greatly changed on the use of ethanol from a tuner stand point. I had my eyes better opened to the benifits of the fuel from a very close friend.  We now have changed our drag cars over to a race blend of ethanol and we were very pleased with the results!!  Nate we still have 20-25 gallons of our race blend left which measures 90% from this season if your interested.
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