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 2003 saleen s281 dyno

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Brett@K&KPerformance
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PostSubject: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 6:23 pm

This car made 358rwhp and 380rwtq with a smaller pulley and a custom tune from K&K Performance! Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XIarKzrM00
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 7:11 pm

Lookin good! Hope to see mine on a dyno getn tuned soon!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 7:31 pm

wow nice numbers. is that a stock blower or is it Kbell. who owns this one? i thin i seen it the other day on main street

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 7:49 pm

shawnss wrote:
wow nice numbers. is that a stock blower or is it Kbell. who owns this one? i thin i seen it the other day on main street
It's mine. Thanks and I saw your truck go by on Main, it sounds sick!
Stock everything except the mods in my sig. It came w/ a 1.6 L wipple that I'm thinking about porting.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 7:56 pm

Wireman wrote:
shawnss wrote:
wow nice numbers. is that a stock blower or is it Kbell. who owns this one? i thin i seen it the other day on main street
It's mine. Thanks and I saw your truck go by on Main, it sounds sick!
Stock everything except the mods in my sig. It came w/ a 1.6 L wipple that I'm thinking about porting.

nice mods. welcome to the forum. its nice having new members around. you entering it in the car show this weekend? i wasnt for sure if the car was heavymods he just got a saleen last friday.

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 8:02 pm

I wasn't planning on, but if I'm around I'll check it out. I know the car your talking about, it's a sweet car. Looks very similar, even the color.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 8:04 pm

Wireman wrote:
I wasn't planning on, but if I'm around I'll check it out. I know the car your talking about, it's a sweet car. Looks very similar, even the color.
thats what i was thinking. i havent seen it yet but he lives right around the corner from me. so i get to see all his nice rides almost everyday Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 8:08 pm

nice how much boost?
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 8:14 pm

nate jackson wrote:
nice how much boost?
about 10.5 psi
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 8:16 pm

Wireman wrote:
nate jackson wrote:
nice how much boost?
about 10.5 psi
What is a safe boost level on these motors. i know i doesn't always matter how much boost but as to how good the tune is. i was just wondering what is safe for these motors?

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 8:29 pm

shawnss wrote:
Wireman wrote:
nate jackson wrote:
nice how much boost?
about 10.5 psi
What is a safe boost level on these motors. i know i doesn't always matter how much boost but as to how good the tune is. i was just wondering what is safe for these motors?
They say any more than 6psi and the motor looses longevity. Thats what it came stock. The weak point is the stock connecting rods. Kenne bell claims the 2V motor will handle 450rwhp and the block much more, but you wont see anything close to that w/o forced induction or juice. If i port my intake and add long tubes (thats the plan), boost should drop by at least 2psi, but flow will increase. Is that better? idk......

Brett and I spent a ton of time datalogging and refining this tune. Totally safe AFR's all the way through w/ min timing.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 8:40 pm

Wireman wrote:
shawnss wrote:
Wireman wrote:
nate jackson wrote:
nice how much boost?
about 10.5 psi
What is a safe boost level on these motors. i know i doesn't always matter how much boost but as to how good the tune is. i was just wondering what is safe for these motors?
They say any more than 6psi and the motor looses longevity. Thats what it came stock. The weak point is the stock connecting rods. Kenne bell claims the 2V motor will handle 450rwhp and the block much more, but you wont see anything close to that w/o forced induction or juice. If i port my intake and add long tubes (thats the plan), boost should drop by at least 2psi, but flow will increase. Is that better? idk......

Brett and I spent a ton of time datalogging and refining this tune. Totally safe AFR's all the way through w/ min timing.

sounds like you have a pretty good plan. tuning is key. i have lost a motor do to a bad tune. i got a pro tune on and it drop over a second off my 1/4 time. boost is fun. now that im boosted i wont go N/A.

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 9:05 pm

boost, it's what replaces displacement...
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 5th 2010, 11:21 pm

It's not always the tune! there are many variables that cause failure. More hp means more cylinder pressure which = more heat. You can have a spot on tune and still blow a motor. There are limits to how much power a motor can handle. In my opinion I wouldn't take the saleen past 400rwhp on Gary's dyno and the stock blower. Scott's car makes really good power, there is probably only a handfull of cars that can make that power and have all the creature comforts that Scott's car has. Congrats on a really sweet ride Scott!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 12:01 am

Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
It's not always the tune! there are many variables that cause failure. More hp means more cylinder pressure which = more heat. You can have a spot on tune and still blow a motor. There are limits to how much power a motor can handle. In my opinion I wouldn't take the saleen past 400rwhp on Gary's dyno and the stock blower. Scott's car makes really good power, there is probably only a handfull of cars that can make that power and have all the creature comforts that Scott's car has. Congrats on a really sweet ride Scott!

Isn't the higher heat typically why FI setups run a lower AFR than an NA setup?
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 1:38 pm

very nice car!! welcome!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 5:37 pm

05judge wrote:
Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
It's not always the tune! there are many variables that cause failure. More hp means more cylinder pressure which = more heat. You can have a spot on tune and still blow a motor. There are limits to how much power a motor can handle. In my opinion I wouldn't take the saleen past 400rwhp on Gary's dyno and the stock blower. Scott's car makes really good power, there is probably only a handfull of cars that can make that power and have all the creature comforts that Scott's car has. Congrats on a really sweet ride Scott!

Isn't the higher heat typically why FI setups run a lower AFR than an NA setup?


heat is a byproduct of compression of air. a fatter afr will knock down detonation, give a cooling effect in the cylinders, but not
keep an engine from turning into a paperweight.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 6:08 pm

05judge wrote:
Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
It's not always the tune! there are many variables that cause failure. More hp means more cylinder pressure which = more heat. You can have a spot on tune and still blow a motor. There are limits to how much power a motor can handle. In my opinion I wouldn't take the saleen past 400rwhp on Gary's dyno and the stock blower. Scott's car makes really good power, there is probably only a handfull of cars that can make that power and have all the creature comforts that Scott's car has. Congrats on a really sweet ride Scott!

Isn't the higher heat typically why FI setups run a lower AFR than an NA setup?
To an extent it will help, but if you are pushing a non forged bottom end well past 400rwhp with a power adder that is making a lot of heat it can have failure no matter what the tune is doing. Not saying it will, but there is a chance! I have about 6 mustangs in billings running my tunes now and they are all safe tunes. But I do tell the FI guy's that there is a risk for failure. And I only blow up my own shit! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 6:37 pm

Ask Paul about pushing his car to 425whp with cast pistons. I pulled the motor, it was not pretty. The motor lasted for about a month and a half, but it is going to cost about 5k to get it all fixed up.

Keep it reliable and when you are ready for more boost, upgrade the bottom end before it breaks, that route is much cheaper than fixing a motor that has failed.

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 6:52 pm

Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
It's not always the tune! there are many variables that cause failure. More hp means more cylinder pressure which = more heat. You can have a spot on tune and still blow a motor. There are limits to how much power a motor can handle.
No shit. I know you surf the same forums I do and it always gets blamed on the tuner. It's like people think with the right tune they should be able to put 600whp through a stock motor. There are physical limits and since these motors weren't designed to take boost in the first place some are going to take it better than others. I wish there was some magic number that you can always get up to and not past but it doesn't seem to work that way.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 7:55 pm

It would be nice if the car manufacturers would just use forged components from the factory. Spend the extra couple bucks and do it right the first time.

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 10:20 pm

i guess the reason I'm bringing any of my questions up is because the LSx motors have been proving 500+rwhp with no issues for several years now on stock bottowm ends. WIth upgraded rod bolts, they are handling 600-700rwhp without any issues.
What makes these motors so much better?
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 10:48 pm

05judge wrote:
i guess the reason I'm bringing any of my questions up is because the LSx motors have been proving 500+rwhp with no issues for several years now on stock bottowm ends. WIth upgraded rod bolts, they are handling 600-700rwhp without any issues.
What makes these motors so much better?
Yes they do make good power with no issues. They also have a lot more cubes and more comp. I'm not bashing the GM products (I own a 69 chevelle) But the late model GM cars just don't respond to FI like the late model fords do. When I was at the SCT school in florida we dynoed and tuned a 2010 Camaro SS with a magna charger on it and it made 508rwhp. We also dynoed a whippled 2008 mustang gt and made 504rwhp out of a stock 4.6L. My stock motor made made 501rwhp with a saleen blower. So im not impressed with the GM stuff! Can you make them fast yes, and you can spend a lot of money on them in doing so. There are just as many Mustangs making 500+ on stock internals as GM cars on stock internals. The GM motors are not better it's just preference! The Ford stuff is just cheaper and you can make the same amount of power if not more. Some of this is IMO, I think the GM stuff is badass too! If I didn't have a mustang I would own a new camaro!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 11:04 pm

I'm definately not trying to make this a ford vs gm. I mean look at the new 2011 5.0 stand making 410hp/390tq. That's just insane with such a small motor. I guess where I was headed was that the days of forged internals are becoming less and less necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 6th 2010, 11:13 pm

05judge wrote:
I'm definately not trying to make this a ford vs gm. I mean look at the new 2011 5.0 stand making 410hp/390tq. That's just insane with such a small motor. I guess where I was headed was that the days of forged internals are becoming less and less necessary.
Ya, we defently don't want to do that. I wish they would have kept the comp down though on 2011! But you are right you can make 500rwhp on a stock late model pretty easy no matter what brand you have.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 12:05 am

all i know is that ford had to put a superchager on a mustang to make it keep up with a camaro. when you compared the maggie against the whipple that isnt a fair match. the whipple is a far superior s/c than the magnusson. with jasons maggie, very safe tune i know that he is making atleast 540rwhp with 9 psi. thats on a stock bottom end and stock heads.

so when you say that a ford engine does better with fi wouldnt this saleen with 10.5psi rip apart a gm truck engine? i see 1.27 hp per ci with the mustang vs the gm 1.48 hp per ci with less boost.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 1:48 am

Novaflash2002 wrote:
all i know is that ford had to put a superchager on a mustang to make it keep up with a camaro. when you compared the maggie against the whipple that isnt a fair match. the whipple is a far superior s/c than the magnusson. with jasons maggie, very safe tune i know that he is making atleast 540rwhp with 9 psi. thats on a stock bottom end and stock heads.

so when you say that a ford engine does better with fi wouldnt this saleen with 10.5psi rip apart a gm truck engine? i see 1.27 hp per ci with the mustang vs the gm 1.48 hp per ci with less boost.

oh here we go Rolling Eyes

Haha, yeah I remember all those 03 cobra vs 03 camaro comparisons........... silent
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 7:22 am

affraid
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 7:42 am

the camaro stopped in 2002, what i am getting at is.... the mod motor and the lsx are great engines to work off of. you cant compare them apples to apples. they both have very strong ponts about them. i like the mod motor, they can squeeze some awesome power out of them. But i love the lsx, great power out of the box and many factory upgrades to boost power before you hit the after market shevels.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 8:46 am

05judge wrote:
affraid
Thats all I'm gona say too!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 10:09 am

So. How bout this weather. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 10:13 am

shawnss wrote:
So. How bout this weather. Very Happy

Great day for a walk in the park....... sunny
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 11:13 am

Novaflash2002 wrote:
the camaro stopped in 2002,

I know, I was trying to be funny. I failed! Crying or Very sad

Novaflash2002 wrote:
what i am getting at is.... the mod motor and the lsx are great engines to work off of. you cant compare them apples to apples. they both have very strong ponts about them. i like the mod motor, they can squeeze some awesome power out of them. But i love the lsx, great power out of the box and many factory upgrades to boost power before you hit the after market shevels.

I couldn't agree more. Gm has given a little more to work with from the factory than ford has, up till recently anyway. Things are starting to even out. With out the competition between gm and ford, imagine what we would be driving around in!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 11:27 am

I'm really anxious to see how the new 5.0 stang motors pan out. It seems to me like they really had to push hard to get the power they ended up with. It will be interesting to see how the motors react to mods, dare I say FI, with the high compression they are running.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 11:28 am

Quote :
i see 1.27 hp per ci with the mustang vs the gm 1.48 hp per ci with less boost.

Silly boys and your big engines. I'm around 3.78 hp per ci! Just have to give ya crap!

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 11:47 am

we arnt talking about lawn mowers here jason. just jokin with ya.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 12:03 pm

05judge wrote:
I'm really anxious to see how the new 5.0 stang motors pan out. It seems to me like they really had to push hard to get the power they ended up with. It will be interesting to see how the motors react to mods, dare I say FI, with the high compression they are running.

Looks like a piston swap will be necessary to run any serious boost on the 2011 5.0.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 12:49 pm

Novaflash2002 wrote:
all i know is that ford had to put a superchager on a mustang to make it keep up with a camaro. when you compared the maggie against the whipple that isnt a fair match. the whipple is a far superior s/c than the magnusson. with jasons maggie, very safe tune i know that he is making atleast 540rwhp with 9 psi. thats on a stock bottom end and stock heads.

so when you say that a ford engine does better with fi wouldnt this saleen with 10.5psi rip apart a gm truck engine? i see 1.27 hp per ci with the mustang vs the gm 1.48 hp per ci with less boost.

Some facts about this whipple. Lysholm 1600ax 1st generation whipple not the greatest twin screw and certainly not as good as todays whipples and kenne bells, so it may be a fair comparison to the magnason. Peak boost (10.5) comes only at 5800rpm w/ low rpm coming on around 5-6psi and building. They're also prone to building high AIT's. This one has taken a ton of cooling mods, new I/C, bigger H/E and pump just to bring down temps to a safe level for consistant power.

As for the LSx, I dont think thats a fair comparison to 4.6L2v that came factory rated at 255hp at the crank... I'd side w/ Chevy on that one. The S197 3v and the new coyote 5.0 are another story.

for the record the dyno was done on Gary's dyno so actual is closer to 395rwhp IMO..
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 1:21 pm

the one up that the maggie gets is the bypass valve. that is what helps with the heat soaking. ive watched jasons car run up to 185 degree iat on a 65 degree day and cool right back down to 77. i do understand that.

the point i was getting at is you cannot compare the mod vs the lsx. i was countering the 2010ss vs the 2008 gt, so that i could prove my point. different cases would result in different products. sorry if i made it feel like i dragged you through the dirt, that was not the purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 1:59 pm

I still think Gary's dyno is right about where it should read. My 2.0L made 461 hp on an 80 Degree day on the 10th run with no fans. That's exactly the power I would have expected. Most on here are using Gary's dyno so I think we can compare numbers pretty well between all our cars. Regardless your numbers are great and obviously make for a fun and reliable Mustang. I would be very happy with those numbers.

I think we should setup a MAEC dyno day. I talked to Gary about doing it a few years ago. It'd be fun to see a lot of peoples car's on there. I think some would surprise everyone and others would disappoint their owners. I really want to test out some new cam timing changes.

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 2:08 pm

I think a dyno day is a wonderful idea!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 2:15 pm

I'd be down for it. I'm still curious what my actual numbers are.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 2:23 pm

You guys suck I'm awd. I don't thikn I could get away with bulling the front drive shaft

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 2:27 pm

shawnss wrote:
You guys suck I'm awd. I don't thikn I could get away with bulling the front drive shaft

We could put your front end up on jackstands........ bounce lol!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 2:42 pm

Novaflash2002 wrote:
the one up that the maggie gets is the bypass valve. that is what helps with the heat soaking. ive watched jasons car run up to 185 degree iat on a 65 degree day and cool right back down to 77. i do understand that.

the point i was getting at is you cannot compare the mod vs the lsx. i was countering the 2010ss vs the 2008 gt, so that i could prove my point. different cases would result in different products. sorry if i made it feel like i dragged you through the dirt, that was not the purpose.

No worries. I got your point and was agreeing, just wanted you to understand the blowers arent that far off. Sounds like even the temps are similar. I see less than 100 deg no load and hit 150 deg after several runs on a hot day. They used to be 180+.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 2:49 pm

Wireman wrote:
Novaflash2002 wrote:
the one up that the maggie gets is the bypass valve. that is what helps with the heat soaking. ive watched jasons car run up to 185 degree iat on a 65 degree day and cool right back down to 77. i do understand that.

the point i was getting at is you cannot compare the mod vs the lsx. i was countering the 2010ss vs the 2008 gt, so that i could prove my point. different cases would result in different products. sorry if i made it feel like i dragged you through the dirt, that was not the purpose.

No worries. I got your point and was agreeing, just wanted you to understand the blowers arent that far off. Sounds like even the temps are similar. I see less than 100 deg no load and hit 150 deg after several runs on a hot day. They used to be 180+.

I do have a question about your S281. What hp/tq is it rated at from the factory?
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 7:49 pm

I do have a question about your S281. What hp/tq is it rated at from the factory?[/quote]

375 optimistic crank HP / 415 TQ. Most see around 295 to the wheel stock, some less with the series IV blowers. I wish i would have got a base dyno, so i'd be guessing to say 270 rwhp on Gary's dyno. Saleen started w/ an 03 GT that was rated 255hp. This car is a Hollywood horspower edition car which is a replica of the S281E (extreme 425hp) that got run over by a semi in the 2nd fast and curious movie. There is only 17 others like it and that why i got it and because of the center exhaust which was only put on E cars until 04.

The suspension and styling is what really sells saleens. There performance needs a little help. But what the hell fun is stock anyway?!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 7th 2010, 10:29 pm

What about us dodge guys? scratch No love cause i don't have a supercharger! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 8th 2010, 9:06 am

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 9th 2010, 10:07 am

686raptor wrote:
What about us dodge guys? scratch No love cause i don't have a supercharger! cheers

No Rob, no love cause you don't need one!! lol...
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