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 2003 saleen s281 dyno

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Wireman
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 9th 2010, 10:10 am

Riptide wrote:
I have my eye on this for next summer I hope.

http://www.lethalperformance.com/superchargers-whipple-intercooled-complete-kits-c-576_577_2516_2543_3672/whipple-05-06-gt-w140ax-intercooled-ho-550hp-kit-black-p-8318

Good choice, does that come w/ 36lb injectors? Obviously you'll need more fuel too, does it come w/ a pump upgrade, or some boost a pump?
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   May 9th 2010, 10:34 am

It looks like it comes with 36 lb. injectors. It also comes with an upgraded fuel pump out of the GT500.

It is probably the "safest" kit you'll find for a stock 3v 4.6. That blower with the whipple tune - never heard of a single one that went boom. Not even on the forums. It could still happen of course but I think that setup is probably the best bet for a stock bottom end.

I haven't made my mind up whether I want to run the 8psi pulley or not. Probably a little bit safer yet if I do.

Gonna take a year to save up for it though.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 20th 2011, 9:37 pm

This thread has so much bad information in it..

A bad tune is the #1 Reason you'll blow an engine BEFORE it reaches it's maximum horsepower potential..

There are many other factors as well, such as how many rpm, etc, but a bad tune will always prematurely kill a FI engine..

As far as elevated cylinder pressures blah blah blah, that doesn't blow holes in pistons.....

And a headgasket will blow long before a piston will if the "pressure" is too high, but any sort of detonation will melt her down before you ever even here it..


Not to sound like a dick, but I also think its funny that almost all the cars in the dyno sections are mustangs..
All the 4 cylinder guys don't waste their money because they'd be embarrassed what the put down, if they could even spin the rollers at all.,
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 11:42 am

Blwnbyu wrote:
Not to sound like a dick, but I also think its funny that almost all the cars in the dyno sections are mustangs..
All the 4 cylinder guys don't waste their money because they'd be embarrassed what the put down, if they could even spin the rollers at all.,

Tehehehe, too funny!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 11:55 am

Blwnbyu wrote:
This thread has so much bad information in it..

A bad tune is the #1 Reason you'll blow an engine BEFORE it reaches it's maximum horsepower potential..

There are many other factors as well, such as how many rpm, etc, but a bad tune will always prematurely kill a FI engine..

As far as elevated cylinder pressures blah blah blah, that doesn't blow holes in pistons.....

And a headgasket will blow long before a piston will if the "pressure" is too high, but any sort of detonation will melt her down before you ever even here it..


Not to sound like a dick, but I also think its funny that almost all the cars in the dyno sections are mustangs..
All the 4 cylinder guys don't waste their money because they'd be embarrassed what the put down, if they could even spin the rollers at all.,



I find it funny that you'd resurect a post, to criticise opinions and then worry about sounding like a dick... really?



That's funny!Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 12:00 pm

Blwnbyu wrote:
This thread has so much bad information in it..

A bad tune is the #1 Reason you'll blow an engine BEFORE it reaches it's maximum horsepower potential..

There are many other factors as well, such as how many rpm, etc, but a bad tune will always prematurely kill a FI engine..

As far as elevated cylinder pressures blah blah blah, that doesn't blow holes in pistons.....

And a headgasket will blow long before a piston will if the "pressure" is too high, but any sort of detonation will melt her down before you ever even here it..


Not to sound like a dick, but I also think its funny that almost all the cars in the dyno sections are mustangs..
All the 4 cylinder guys don't waste their money because they'd be embarrassed what the put down, if they could even spin the rollers at all.,

Not a fully true statment. a properly matched head gasket between the block and head will hold together much better then say bending a rod, or cracking a ringland in a piston. see a damaged piston/rod and burnt valve, over a head gasket failure 100:1. ( yes that many ). The main thing on a engine before the tune is... it will only hold together as well as the person that assembled it. if it is a shawdy build it wont make it much further than a base tune..... people always blame the tune, but some of those times it was put together poorly.
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Blwnbyu
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 4:58 pm

Novaflash2002 wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
This thread has so much bad information in it..

A bad tune is the #1 Reason you'll blow an engine BEFORE it reaches it's maximum horsepower potential..

There are many other factors as well, such as how many rpm, etc, but a bad tune will always prematurely kill a FI engine..

As far as elevated cylinder pressures blah blah blah, that doesn't blow holes in pistons.....

And a headgasket will blow long before a piston will if the "pressure" is too high, but any sort of detonation will melt her down before you ever even here it..


Not to sound like a dick, but I also think its funny that almost all the cars in the dyno sections are mustangs..
All the 4 cylinder guys don't waste their money because they'd be embarrassed what the put down, if they could even spin the rollers at all.,

Not a fully true statment. a properly matched head gasket between the block and head will hold together much better then say bending a rod, or cracking a ringland in a piston. see a damaged piston/rod and burnt valve, over a head gasket failure 100:1. ( yes that many ). The main thing on a engine before the tune is... it will only hold together as well as the person that assembled it. if it is a shawdy build it wont make it much further than a base tune..... people always blame the tune, but some of those times it was put together poorly.



That doesn't really explain everyone blowing up stock motors..

And Wireman is right, I didn't really care about sounding like a dick

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 5:31 pm

no 1 thing... a motor is in no way an engine. they are two totaly different things. and yes in stock engines a head gasket will hold together longer than a stock piston will.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 6:33 pm

Novaflash2002 wrote:
no 1 thing... a motor is in no way an engine. they are two totaly different things.

Well, that's not a fully true statement either. By definition they are one in the same, but it's all in how you associate things. Just because you associate the term motor with only electric motors, doesn't mean everyone else does as well.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/motor
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 6:51 pm

I think Blwnbyu has been playing with too many push rod 5.0's. He is right that in a push rod 5.0 the head gasket will go everytime before a rod will. But in the modular motors of today you will almost never blow a head gasket before the bottom end will let go. And you can blow a perfect motor with a spot on tune because the cylinder pressure was to great which then broke a rod. I may have done this once or twice. Lol
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 8:15 pm

i will say this. in school if you called an engine a motor you failed that semester. thats a bunch of dough down the drain.

a motor has 1 funtion electricity. a engine has 2 or more (depends if it is a two stroke or four stroke). a motor uses electrity, an engine uses a fuel. they both can create movement, it is how the movement is created. 1 has windings the other a recipicating assemblie. they both create a different type of energy.

the main point is, there was no bad information. I Build engines and vehicals as part of my income; my mentor (father) for a living does it every day. its more than a hobby. the same goes for brett. if your going to step into the ring with the big boys you better know your shit better than the person you are talking shit too.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 8:41 pm

Novaflash2002 wrote:
i will say this. in school if you called an engine a motor you failed that semester. thats a bunch of dough down the drain.

a motor has 1 funtion electricity. a engine has 2 or more (depends if it is a two stroke or four stroke). a motor uses electrity, an engine uses a fuel. they both can create movement, it is how the movement is created. 1 has windings the other a recipicating assemblie. they both create a different type of energy.

I understand why you associate things the way you do. Just stating that not every one shares the same associations.

MOTOR
1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion.
2. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 10:24 pm

Novaflash2002 wrote:
no 1 thing... a motor is in no way an engine. they are two totaly different things. and yes in stock engines a head gasket will hold together longer than a stock piston will.

Is that how you break things down to make yourself feel smarter than everyone else?





Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics... Even if you win, you're still retarded.


Last edited by Blwnbyu on August 21st 2011, 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 10:29 pm

Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
I think Blwnbyu has been playing with too many push rod 5.0's. He is right that in a push rod 5.0 the head gasket will go everytime before a rod will. But in the modular motors of today you will almost never blow a head gasket before the bottom end will let go. And you can blow a perfect motor with a spot on tune because the cylinder pressure was to great which then broke a rod. I may have done this once or twice. Lol

I had a mod motor back when they were still very expensive to modify without any real gains rabbit

I really do like the pushrod cars for how incredibly cheap and simple they are to work on, yet are pretty indestructible until you wanna push over 500 horse or spin it to the moon..

Although, OBDII cars are much easier to tune and have many more options available.


My next toy will be a new 5.0. Maybe a 2012 or 13 pushing some boost, but in the mean time, I have a 408 to stuff in the cobra to hold me over.

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 10:54 pm

Blwnbyu wrote:
Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
I think Blwnbyu has been playing with too many push rod 5.0's. He is right that in a push rod 5.0 the head gasket will go everytime before a rod will. But in the modular motors of today you will almost never blow a head gasket before the bottom end will let go. And you can blow a perfect motor with a spot on tune because the cylinder pressure was to great which then broke a rod. I may have done this once or twice. Lol

I had a mod motor back when they were still very expensive to modify without any real gains rabbit

I really do like the pushrod cars for how incredibly cheap and simple they are to work on, yet are pretty indestructible until you wanna push over 500 horse or spin it to the moon..

Although, OBDII cars are much easier to tune and have many more options available.


My next toy will be a new 5.0. Maybe a 2012 or 13 pushing some boost, but in the mean time, I have a 408 to stuff in the cobra to hold me over.


Interesting......based on your obvious wealth of knowledge you are saying pushrod engines are not reliable when their power output exceeds 500 hp? scratch
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 21st 2011, 11:26 pm

White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
I think Blwnbyu has been playing with too many push rod 5.0's. He is right that in a push rod 5.0 the head gasket will go everytime before a rod will. But in the modular motors of today you will almost never blow a head gasket before the bottom end will let go. And you can blow a perfect motor with a spot on tune because the cylinder pressure was to great which then broke a rod. I may have done this once or twice. Lol

I had a mod motor back when they were still very expensive to modify without any real gains rabbit

I really do like the pushrod cars for how incredibly cheap and simple they are to work on, yet are pretty indestructible until you wanna push over 500 horse or spin it to the moon..

Although, OBDII cars are much easier to tune and have many more options available.


My next toy will be a new 5.0. Maybe a 2012 or 13 pushing some boost, but in the mean time, I have a 408 to stuff in the cobra to hold me over.


Interesting......based on your obvious wealth of knowledge you are saying pushrod engines are not reliable when their power output exceeds 500 hp? scratch

Unfortunately its true, with the FI push-rod 5.0 anyway. The block and internals are only good for about 500 hp, along with the fuel system, and the transmission.You cant even get that far with the stock heads and intake with out a moderate amount of boost or n2o. So yes, It gets VERY expensive at that point. Of course there are some making more than 500 on the stock block with the stock t-5 in place without problem but those are the exception, not the rule.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 7:00 am

I like the discussion of the motor/engine. It is a great debate in in all all areas of mechIanics. My main field is aviation. The legal terminology is that a motor is a powerplant that uses electricity to produce mechanical energy to produce work. For a engine is a powerplant that uses a fuel to produce mechanical energy to produce work. I have worked in a few engine shops automotive and avation. This is always a great subject for debate, I have had some people argue till they were ready to challenge someone to fisty cuffs. The general rule for professional workplaces is a motor/electricity and engine/fuel burning.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 10:39 am

Blwnbyu wrote:
Novaflash2002 wrote:
no 1 thing... a motor is in no way an engine. they are two totaly different things. and yes in stock engines a head gasket will hold together longer than a stock piston will.

Is that how you break things down to make yourself feel smarter than everyone else?

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics... Even if you win, you're still retarded.


Hmm. don't know you... but make sure you know all of your facts before typing your thoughs.

Not trying to start a pissing match but i do not appreciate people making fun of cognitive delayed people, being my brother has CP.

I have a hard time expressing myself through typing, i usually sound like a dick. I'm sorry if i infuriated you in any way. But don't lead off a post saying there is a bunch of bad information when there clearly wasn't. I obviously know nothing of your mechanical background as you don't know of mine. I do know that Brett is a very talented person that knows what he is talking about, and I know that I would not butt in if i didn't know what i was talking about either.

thank you Waylon.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 12:41 pm

Flaminghellcat wrote:
I like the discussion of the motor/engine. It is a great debate in in all all areas of mechIanics. My main field is aviation. The legal terminology is that a motor is a powerplant that uses electricity to produce mechanical energy to produce work. For a engine is a powerplant that uses a fuel to produce mechanical energy to produce work. I have worked in a few engine shops automotive and avation. This is always a great subject for debate, I have had some people argue till they were ready to challenge someone to fisty cuffs. The general rule for professional workplaces is a motor/electricity and engine/fuel burning.


I would not go as far as saying that is "legal" terminology. More like, technical terminology in certain fields of work.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 12:55 pm

White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
I think Blwnbyu has been playing with too many push rod 5.0's. He is right that in a push rod 5.0 the head gasket will go everytime before a rod will. But in the modular motors of today you will almost never blow a head gasket before the bottom end will let go. And you can blow a perfect motor with a spot on tune because the cylinder pressure was to great which then broke a rod. I may have done this once or twice. Lol

I had a mod motor back when they were still very expensive to modify without any real gains rabbit

I really do like the pushrod cars for how incredibly cheap and simple they are to work on, yet are pretty indestructible until you wanna push over 500 horse or spin it to the moon..

Although, OBDII cars are much easier to tune and have many more options available.


My next toy will be a new 5.0. Maybe a 2012 or 13 pushing some boost, but in the mean time, I have a 408 to stuff in the cobra to hold me over.


Interesting......based on your obvious wealth of knowledge you are saying pushrod engines are not reliable when their power output exceeds 500 hp? scratch


You can push stock internals that far, usually without breakage, OR you can spend $3 grand on a forged rotating assembly and the BLOCK still splits down the middle in the vicinity of 500 horse..

Some may make more, but its stil a ticking time bomb, especially with higher rpm or if you beat on it regularly..


So, based on my obvious wealth of knowledge, YES, pushrod engines are not reliable over 500 horsepower with a factory block, especially a latemodel roller block.

Mexican blocks are a little better, sportsmans above that, 302R's and Darts above that....

Its kind of depressing when a 5.0 block is only good for 500 horse, while the teksid 4.6L block that replaced it has been known to hold upwards of 2500 horsepower without modification, and the NEW 5.0 doesn't break a sweat at 1500 horse either...



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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 4:56 pm

smd wrote:
Flaminghellcat wrote:
I like the discussion of the motor/engine. It is a great debate in in all all areas of mechIanics. My main field is aviation. The legal terminology is that a motor is a powerplant that uses electricity to produce mechanical energy to produce work. For a engine is a powerplant that uses a fuel to produce mechanical energy to produce work. I have worked in a few engine shops automotive and avation. This is always a great subject for debate, I have had some people argue till they were ready to challenge someone to fisty cuffs. The general rule for professional workplaces is a motor/electricity and engine/fuel burning.


I would not go as far as saying that is "legal" terminology. More like, technical terminology in certain fields of work.

I am certificated in airframe/powerplant and avionics. These fields where everything you do to a aircraft is documented and every document is a legal document and every document is submitted to the FAA (Federal Aviation Association). Every time you touch a plane to be worked on it needs to be on paper and described in detail. My avionics teacher would say "Remember all the laws in this field have been written in blood, if you screw your paper work up on any component and they come looking for me, I will be seeing you from across the courtroom".

So yes I do mean legal terminology for motor and engine. I is something I would never mix up the terminology.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 7:43 pm

Flaminghellcat wrote:
smd wrote:
Flaminghellcat wrote:
I like the discussion of the motor/engine. It is a great debate in in all all areas of mechIanics. My main field is aviation. The legal terminology is that a motor is a powerplant that uses electricity to produce mechanical energy to produce work. For a engine is a powerplant that uses a fuel to produce mechanical energy to produce work. I have worked in a few engine shops automotive and avation. This is always a great subject for debate, I have had some people argue till they were ready to challenge someone to fisty cuffs. The general rule for professional workplaces is a motor/electricity and engine/fuel burning.


I would not go as far as saying that is "legal" terminology. More like, technical terminology in certain fields of work.

I am certificated in airframe/powerplant and avionics. These fields where everything you do to a aircraft is documented and every document is a legal document and every document is submitted to the FAA (Federal Aviation Association). Every time you touch a plane to be worked on it needs to be on paper and described in detail. My avionics teacher would say "Remember all the laws in this field have been written in blood, if you screw your paper work up on any component and they come looking for me, I will be seeing you from across the courtroom".

So yes I do mean legal terminology for motor and engine. I is something I would never mix up the terminology.

Just because you use a term on a legal document, does not make it legal terminology. The content of the statement where the word is used is legal terminology, but that does not mean that the words by themselves are in any way legal. I understand what you are saying, but in a legal document you use the technical terminology ,words that are to be taken according to their approved and known use in the trade in which the document is entered into.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/technical
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 8:11 pm

Novaflash2002 wrote:
i will say this. in school if you called an engine a motor you failed that semester. thats a bunch of dough down the drain.

a motor has 1 funtion electricity. a engine has 2 or more (depends if it is a two stroke or four stroke). a motor uses electrity, an engine uses a fuel. they both can create movement, it is how the movement is created. 1 has windings the other a recipicating assemblie. they both create a different type of energy.

the main point is, there was no bad information. I Build engines and vehicals as part of my income; my mentor (father) for a living does it every day. its more than a hobby. the same goes for brett. if your going to step into the ring with the big boys you better know your shit better than the person you are talking shit too.

So by your definitions of a motor and an engine, where do rotaries fit in? And Gas turbines? And reciprocating electric motors? And Steam turbines? And Steam Engines? And the ever so popular drinking bird? lol!

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 8:43 pm

if you want to be a smart ass about it. there is no such thing as a turbo. it is an exhaust driven supercharger. the best part about your argument, is you are making your self look less intellegent everytime. i love how waylon and myself can give a defintion from our knowledge and you have to use the internet to try and prove yourself correct.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 8:55 pm

all the sudden i feel less smart
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 9:01 pm

Wow! You guys know how to kill the mood. I was enjoying Blwnbyu's friend winning comments and you guys sucked the fun right out of it!



Can we get back to more of that please?
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 9:15 pm

Novaflash2002 wrote:
if you want to be a smart ass about it. there is no such thing as a turbo. it is an exhaust driven supercharger. the best part about your argument, is you are making your self look less intellegent everytime. i love how waylon and myself can give a defintion from our knowledge and you have to use the internet to try and prove yourself correct.

Wow, I thought we were having an intelligent conversation with a little humor mixed in. There is no need for you to lose your temper. You didn't even make an attempt to defend your definitions. Do you know why, because you are wrong. So you throw a tantrum like a 10 year old girl. Waylon on the other hand has presented an intelligent defense, and I respect him for that. However you, who I had respect for prior to your statement, I no longer respect.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 10:05 pm

wow i didnt lose my temper at all. thats funny. i am a very calm person. sounds like you may just need a time out. i try to explain things in what i would call lamens terms. easier for younger folk to read.

now hear me out you, have waylon telling you are (what should i say) not catagorizing your deffention correcttly and i would bet about 80 to 90% would agree. yes to simplify a motor is an engine to a person that doesnt understand the science behind it... but in our field they are two seperate items. motor/ electricty engine/fuel burning.

i type how i talk. i dont add lol or the smile faces. i said smart ass to try and lighten the mood, not hurt your feelers. remember its a forum we all have our own opinons... some are correct and some seem correct
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 10:51 pm

alright ladies chill out theres enough of me to go around. a debate is ok. when it gets personal/ name calling it takes it to a different level. so take it easy on each other.

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 22nd 2011, 11:05 pm

Novaflash2002 wrote:
wow i didnt lose my temper at all. thats funny. i am a very calm person. sounds like you may just need a time out. i try to explain things in what i would call lamens terms. easier for younger folk to read.

now hear me out you, have waylon telling you are (what should i say) not catagorizing your deffention correcttly and i would bet about 80 to 90% would agree. yes to simplify a motor is an engine to a person that doesnt understand the science behind it... but in our field they are two seperate items. motor/ electricty engine/fuel burning.

i type how i talk. i dont add lol or the smile faces. i said smart ass to try and lighten the mood, not hurt your feelers. remember its a forum we all have our own opinons... some are correct and some seem correct

Obviously we both got the wrong impression about what the other meant. The name calling gave me the wrong impression, I guess. But I can see how one could take my statement as a smart ass comment instead of a joke.

If you read back through my posts you will find that I said that your original statement is not fully true, not false. I was simply trying to convey the fact that not everyone shares the same associations as you. And the only reason I made that statement is because you threw it back in blownbyu's face, as though your understanding of the word was the only, which it is not.

I won't call an electric motor an engine, but I may call an internal combustion engine a motor from time to time.

Lets just agree to disagree.

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 23rd 2011, 12:11 am

ghost wrote:
all the sudden i feel less smart

lol!

I sure am glad the pushrod motor statement was clarified cause next year I am shooting for 500hp!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 23rd 2011, 12:23 am

Blwnbyu wrote:
White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
I think Blwnbyu has been playing with too many push rod 5.0's. He is right that in a push rod 5.0 the head gasket will go everytime before a rod will. But in the modular motors of today you will almost never blow a head gasket before the bottom end will let go. And you can blow a perfect motor with a spot on tune because the cylinder pressure was to great which then broke a rod. I may have done this once or twice. Lol

I had a mod motor back when they were still very expensive to modify without any real gains rabbit

I really do like the pushrod cars for how incredibly cheap and simple they are to work on, yet are pretty indestructible until you wanna push over 500 horse or spin it to the moon..

Although, OBDII cars are much easier to tune and have many more options available.


My next toy will be a new 5.0. Maybe a 2012 or 13 pushing some boost, but in the mean time, I have a 408 to stuff in the cobra to hold me over.


Interesting......based on your obvious wealth of knowledge you are saying pushrod engines are not reliable when their power output exceeds 500 hp? scratch


You can push stock internals that far, usually without breakage, OR you can spend $3 grand on a forged rotating assembly and the BLOCK still splits down the middle in the vicinity of 500 horse..

Some may make more, but its stil a ticking time bomb, especially with higher rpm or if you beat on it regularly..


So, based on my obvious wealth of knowledge, YES, pushrod engines are not reliable over 500 horsepower with a factory block, especially a latemodel roller block.

Mexican blocks are a little better, sportsmans above that, 302R's and Darts above that....

Its kind of depressing when a 5.0 block is only good for 500 horse, while the teksid 4.6L block that replaced it has been known to hold upwards of 2500 horsepower without modification, and the NEW 5.0 doesn't break a sweat at 1500 horse either...




Stock block to 2500 hp?.....LOL!....

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 23rd 2011, 2:04 am

White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
I think Blwnbyu has been playing with too many push rod 5.0's. He is right that in a push rod 5.0 the head gasket will go everytime before a rod will. But in the modular motors of today you will almost never blow a head gasket before the bottom end will let go. And you can blow a perfect motor with a spot on tune because the cylinder pressure was to great which then broke a rod. I may have done this once or twice. Lol

I had a mod motor back when they were still very expensive to modify without any real gains rabbit

I really do like the pushrod cars for how incredibly cheap and simple they are to work on, yet are pretty indestructible until you wanna push over 500 horse or spin it to the moon..

Although, OBDII cars are much easier to tune and have many more options available.


My next toy will be a new 5.0. Maybe a 2012 or 13 pushing some boost, but in the mean time, I have a 408 to stuff in the cobra to hold me over.


Interesting......based on your obvious wealth of knowledge you are saying pushrod engines are not reliable when their power output exceeds 500 hp? scratch


You can push stock internals that far, usually without breakage, OR you can spend $3 grand on a forged rotating assembly and the BLOCK still splits down the middle in the vicinity of 500 horse..

Some may make more, but its stil a ticking time bomb, especially with higher rpm or if you beat on it regularly..


So, based on my obvious wealth of knowledge, YES, pushrod engines are not reliable over 500 horsepower with a factory block, especially a latemodel roller block.

Mexican blocks are a little better, sportsmans above that, 302R's and Darts above that....

Its kind of depressing when a 5.0 block is only good for 500 horse, while the teksid 4.6L block that replaced it has been known to hold upwards of 2500 horsepower without modification, and the NEW 5.0 doesn't break a sweat at 1500 horse either...




Stock block to 2500 hp?.....LOL!....



Believe me now????


http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_0906_mercury_cougar_cobra_hybrid/index.html


"What makes John's power and speed so impressive is the small displacement and stock source for major portions of his engine program. Displacement is 282 ci--call it a stock 4.6 liters--using a stock aluminum Cobra block; stock old-style, "B" dual-port, Four-Valve cylinder heads, as found in a '95 Lincoln; and a stock 4.6 Cobra crankshaft. Twin Garrett turbochargers supply a mind-bending 52 pounds of boost on top of an over 11:1 static compression ratio on gasoline!

Sorry, its only 2300 horsepower on a stock block....... Crying or Very sad

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 23rd 2011, 7:30 am

Novaflash2002 wrote:
if you want to be a smart ass about it. there is no such thing as a turbo. it is an exhaust driven supercharger. the best part about your argument, is you are making your self look less intellegent everytime. i love how waylon and myself can give a defintion from our knowledge and you have to use the internet to try and prove yourself correct.

I am glad you brought this up because the first "turbos" were on 18 cylinder radials that used exhaust gas velocity to spin a impeller. This power wasn't to force air in the intake, but to power a separate transmission. This transmission would send the power back to the crankshaft. I can't remember off hand when the first turbo was made but it was called a "turbine supercharger". Now they have shorted it to a "turbo supercharger". The first superchargers were centrifugal superchargers and the were connected directly to the crankshaft of a engine. These were huge, think if a centrifugal supercharger two feet tall six inches wide between your engine and transmission. To improve efficiency/save space they were made smaller and lightened and spun by the exhaust.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 23rd 2011, 11:32 am

smd wrote:
Novaflash2002 wrote:
wow i didnt lose my temper at all. thats funny. i am a very calm person. sounds like you may just need a time out. i try to explain things in what i would call lamens terms. easier for younger folk to read.

now hear me out you, have waylon telling you are (what should i say) not catagorizing your deffention correcttly and i would bet about 80 to 90% would agree. yes to simplify a motor is an engine to a person that doesnt understand the science behind it... but in our field they are two seperate items. motor/ electricty engine/fuel burning.

i type how i talk. i dont add lol or the smile faces. i said smart ass to try and lighten the mood, not hurt your feelers. remember its a forum we all have our own opinons... some are correct and some seem correct

Obviously we both got the wrong impression about what the other meant. The name calling gave me the wrong impression, I guess. But I can see how one could take my statement as a smart ass comment instead of a joke.

If you read back through my posts you will find that I said that your original statement is not fully true, not false. I was simply trying to convey the fact that not everyone shares the same associations as you. And the only reason I made that statement is because you threw it back in blownbyu's face, as though your understanding of the word was the only, which it is not.

I won't call an electric motor an engine, but I may call an internal combustion engine a motor from time to time.

Lets just agree to disagree.

agreed.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 30th 2011, 10:40 pm

Blwnbyu wrote:
White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
I think Blwnbyu has been playing with too many push rod 5.0's. He is right that in a push rod 5.0 the head gasket will go everytime before a rod will. But in the modular motors of today you will almost never blow a head gasket before the bottom end will let go. And you can blow a perfect motor with a spot on tune because the cylinder pressure was to great which then broke a rod. I may have done this once or twice. Lol

I had a mod motor back when they were still very expensive to modify without any real gains rabbit

I really do like the pushrod cars for how incredibly cheap and simple they are to work on, yet are pretty indestructible until you wanna push over 500 horse or spin it to the moon..

Although, OBDII cars are much easier to tune and have many more options available.


My next toy will be a new 5.0. Maybe a 2012 or 13 pushing some boost, but in the mean time, I have a 408 to stuff in the cobra to hold me over.


Interesting......based on your obvious wealth of knowledge you are saying pushrod engines are not reliable when their power output exceeds 500 hp? scratch


You can push stock internals that far, usually without breakage, OR you can spend $3 grand on a forged rotating assembly and the BLOCK still splits down the middle in the vicinity of 500 horse..

Some may make more, but its stil a ticking time bomb, especially with higher rpm or if you beat on it regularly..


So, based on my obvious wealth of knowledge, YES, pushrod engines are not reliable over 500 horsepower with a factory block, especially a latemodel roller block.

Mexican blocks are a little better, sportsmans above that, 302R's and Darts above that....

Its kind of depressing when a 5.0 block is only good for 500 horse, while the teksid 4.6L block that replaced it has been known to hold upwards of 2500 horsepower without modification, and the NEW 5.0 doesn't break a sweat at 1500 horse either...




Stock block to 2500 hp?.....LOL!....



Believe me now????


http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_0906_mercury_cougar_cobra_hybrid/index.html


"What makes John's power and speed so impressive is the small displacement and stock source for major portions of his engine program. Displacement is 282 ci--call it a stock 4.6 liters--using a stock aluminum Cobra block; stock old-style, "B" dual-port, Four-Valve cylinder heads, as found in a '95 Lincoln; and a stock 4.6 Cobra crankshaft. Twin Garrett turbochargers supply a mind-bending 52 pounds of boost on top of an over 11:1 static compression ratio on gasoline!

Sorry, its only 2300 horsepower on a stock block....... Crying or Very sad



Yeah....magazine articles are always a reliable source!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   August 31st 2011, 3:47 pm

White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
White_Trash wrote:
Blwnbyu wrote:
Brett@K&KPerformance wrote:
I think Blwnbyu has been playing with too many push rod 5.0's. He is right that in a push rod 5.0 the head gasket will go everytime before a rod will. But in the modular motors of today you will almost never blow a head gasket before the bottom end will let go. And you can blow a perfect motor with a spot on tune because the cylinder pressure was to great which then broke a rod. I may have done this once or twice. Lol

I had a mod motor back when they were still very expensive to modify without any real gains rabbit

I really do like the pushrod cars for how incredibly cheap and simple they are to work on, yet are pretty indestructible until you wanna push over 500 horse or spin it to the moon..

Although, OBDII cars are much easier to tune and have many more options available.


My next toy will be a new 5.0. Maybe a 2012 or 13 pushing some boost, but in the mean time, I have a 408 to stuff in the cobra to hold me over.


Interesting......based on your obvious wealth of knowledge you are saying pushrod engines are not reliable when their power output exceeds 500 hp? scratch


You can push stock internals that far, usually without breakage, OR you can spend $3 grand on a forged rotating assembly and the BLOCK still splits down the middle in the vicinity of 500 horse..

Some may make more, but its stil a ticking time bomb, especially with higher rpm or if you beat on it regularly..


So, based on my obvious wealth of knowledge, YES, pushrod engines are not reliable over 500 horsepower with a factory block, especially a latemodel roller block.

Mexican blocks are a little better, sportsmans above that, 302R's and Darts above that....

Its kind of depressing when a 5.0 block is only good for 500 horse, while the teksid 4.6L block that replaced it has been known to hold upwards of 2500 horsepower without modification, and the NEW 5.0 doesn't break a sweat at 1500 horse either...




Stock block to 2500 hp?.....LOL!....



Believe me now????


http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_0906_mercury_cougar_cobra_hybrid/index.html


"What makes John's power and speed so impressive is the small displacement and stock source for major portions of his engine program. Displacement is 282 ci--call it a stock 4.6 liters--using a stock aluminum Cobra block; stock old-style, "B" dual-port, Four-Valve cylinder heads, as found in a '95 Lincoln; and a stock 4.6 Cobra crankshaft. Twin Garrett turbochargers supply a mind-bending 52 pounds of boost on top of an over 11:1 static compression ratio on gasoline!

Sorry, its only 2300 horsepower on a stock block....... Crying or Very sad



Yeah....magazine articles are always a reliable source!


You're right.. He runs 6.30's in the 1/4 with 600 horsepower Rolling Eyes


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86uLwXstuWQ&feature=youtu.be

Now you can shut the fuck up about the stock blocks limitations..


You can google all you want and won't find ANYONE who has broken a stock teksid block.


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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   September 1st 2011, 9:58 am

Keep the comments civil please guys.

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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   September 1st 2011, 1:55 pm

haproot wrote:
Keep the comments civil please guys.


I was expecting a language filter to kick in there.. Sorry bounce
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   September 2nd 2011, 11:52 am

Technically this is not a stock block engine. It has been modified to a closed deck design. Good power nonetheless.

Edit: And to the OP, looks like a nice car. What kind of dyno? CF? Chart? Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   September 3rd 2011, 10:41 am

[quote="blknblubkrdude"]
Edit: And to the OP, looks like a nice car. What kind of dyno? CF? Chart? Thanks![/quote

This run was made since the original post. It made 364 / 377 SAE corrected on a dynojet. Stock 4.6L 2V and stock exhaust w/ a Lysholm 1.6L twin screw blower.
[img][/img]
Here is the video.
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   September 3rd 2011, 3:49 pm

^^ Gotta love the torque curve of a twin screw Wink
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   September 3rd 2011, 7:26 pm

Very nice results! Have you run your other car on a Dyno before?
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PostSubject: Re: 2003 saleen s281 dyno   September 3rd 2011, 8:13 pm

Thanks. Yes it was dyno'd by the previous owner and i believe it made 278 rwhp. Here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/user/vortechlx#p/u/17/ROtjxuR7YLQ
The car ran in the 12s with slicks on this set up in Oklahoma city.
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