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 Simple Brake Upgrades?

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ZipDriveX
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PostSubject: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 1:50 pm

So I'm going through all the things the Venge needs before the first Lewistown event this year and one of the things I KNOW I need is brakes.

Now I'm not looking to do a full-blown upgade yet (which on my car includes swapping out the single-piston caliper for the dual-piston of the GSX) but more on the lines of little things I can do to help out at the track.

BTW I have discs on the front and drums on the back.

My plan is to replace the rotors with either CarQuest replacements (maybe just turn them but I'm pretty sure they're cheap) or throw on some Ebay slotted ones: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370129138450

Also I'm deciding weather or not I want to go with the expensive Hawk performance pads or just some better "performance" ceramic pads.

Also I've heard of flushing out the DOT 4 fluid and replacing it for DOT 5 to increase the boiling point for the hot brake temps at the track?

As for the rears..... I don't know much about drum brakes or how to upgrade/replace them. I'm guessing you have to buy the whole drum assembly?

Comments? Suggestions? Ideas? I don't want to spend very much as I have other projects that have to be done before track day and am just looking to better my stock system.

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 3:05 pm

i would not switch up from dot 4 to 5 i doubt you would see any diffenence. but the ebay rotors my buddy tryed on his camaro and they work just fine. the zinc plating wears right off. that doesnt matter as long as they stop the car. also do you know of any avaneger that came with rear disc's? you might be able to swap it out fairly easy if so.
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ZipDriveX
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 3:32 pm

Awesome, I havn't heard many bad things about ebay rotors honestly, I'm just skeptical. And yes, some Avengers came w/ rear disc. I plan on eventually doing the full GSX swap all the way around, but in due time.

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 4:27 pm

aggresive pads are going to make all the difference. When it comes to stopping the key feature is the friction coefficient. You can get better stopping force, with larger calipers, new pads, or new rotors. The cheapest bet is going to be pads. Just make sure to get pads that have an acceptable operating temprerature. Full out race pads work great when they are extremly hot but they don't hardly do anthing when they car cold. Also just so you are aware, more aggressive pads can eat up rotors (something has to give, either its your pads or your rotors)
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ZipDriveX
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 4:28 pm

So I've looked and called around and I think I'm best off going with THESE rotors and THESE pads. Gonna stick with the DOT 4 but may do a flush on it Smile

All comments/ideas still welcomed cheers

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Dr.Auto
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 4:44 pm

Those pads should be a decent improovment over you're stock ones.

Just a note on brake fluid..... Well for one..... Never use DOT5...

Just remember that DOT3 and DOT4 are interchangable. They are just differant ratings as per the DOT.
You can buy a high performance DOT3 brake fluid with a higher boiling point then DOT4. Not all brake fluid is created equal. You need to look at the manufacturers specs. The Dot number of the fluid just means that it meets the minimum DOT specs of that fluid catagory. And it can exceed it too.... you really need to just look at the actual fluids specs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 4:59 pm

that looks like a good pad for what you want to do. If you can find just slotted rotors I would go with them. The drilled rotors have a higher tendency to crack..... but for the price you can't really compain and be too picky
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ZipDriveX
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 5:07 pm

I searched high and low for only slotted rotors as I have been warned about this and read many like warnings, but to no avail. I would much prefer non-drilled but D&S seem to be the only option. Even the Brembos for my application are D&S.

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 6:56 pm

Thanks for clearing up the fluid question for me Matt!! PM'd

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 7th 2010, 7:23 pm

[quote="Dr.Auto"]Those pads should be a decent improovment over you're stock ones.

Just a note on brake fluid..... Well for one..... Never use DOT5...

Just remember that DOT3 and DOT4 are interchangable. They are just differant ratings as per the DOT.
You can buy a high performance DOT3 brake fluid with a higher boiling point then DOT4. Not all brake fluid is created equal. You need to look at the manufacturers specs. The Dot number of the fluid just means that it meets the minimum DOT specs of that fluid catagory. And it can exceed it too.... you really need to just look at the actual fluids specs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid[/quote]
isn't dot 5 fluid like caster oil or some shit? i know some people use it in really really old cars, but i never knew why... something about natural rubber and certain fluids don't mix... scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 8th 2010, 1:58 am

well..... DOT3 DOT4 and DOT5.1 are glycol-ether based

and DOT5 is silicone based. And I guess interchangable with mineral oil which I guess is what some folks used for brake fluid back in the day.... but this is just a redneck guess cause I never really have to deal with it. As far as the natural rubber thing goes.... IDK... lol DOT3,4 are not petrolium based so they won't have any adverse effect on rubber.... and DOT5 being silicone based won't either.
I do know that DOT3,4 is not good to have in a car just sitting aroud and never being used because the fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs moisture) and as a result can dilute bad enough with moisure just from condensation to rust the internal parts of the hydrolic system and cause corrosion and erosion of part that are supposed to move. cause pitting and all that type of stuff. I think DOT5 would be better to the brake system for a car in a storage type of environment.... it is not hygrocopic and would not absorbe moisture like DOT3 and 4.
Dot 5.1 I really know nothing about... I know it's out there and I know I should look at a MSDS on it. lol


Last edited by Dr.Auto on April 8th 2010, 2:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 8th 2010, 2:06 am

here a quick read that explains things pretty well without making you go to sleep. Talks a bit about the DOT specs and how performance fluids can have better boiling point thn DOT4 but only be considered a DOT3.

http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/fluid.shtml
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 8th 2010, 9:35 am

I went to Lewistown with my firebird with Jeg's drilled and slottted rotors and Hawk HPS pads a few years ago. The rotors cracked badly around every drilled hole. I think you would be OK if you kept the length of your run times to a set length and did not push them very hard. I tend to run longer than I should and get them way too hot. I went back to stock rotors and have not had a problem since. They seem to take the heat much bettter than the cheaper aftermarket ones even without the slots or holes. My car has terrible weight to brake size so you might not have any trouble.
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ZipDriveX
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 8th 2010, 9:47 am

Interesting info Randy, This makes me want to just get replacement rotors and the HPS pads. Cheaper that way anyway Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 8th 2010, 10:34 am

I was going to say I think you would be better off with the stock rotor being turned or a new set of OEM ones. Then get the pads you wantsed, makes sure your brakes are bled and you should be good to go. But also remember no matter how good your brakes are if your tires suck the brakes can't do their job. Tires make a huge difference too.

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 8th 2010, 10:40 am

Thanks Jason, new OEM rotors are less than $20 a piece so I'm just gonna get new ones since I'm pretty sure these are the same ones from when I bought the car 5 years ago lol. Also I understand a good tire is important too and my Yokahama Avid V4's do a pretty good job.

The biggest thing I'm trying to make better for this year is brake fade. I could barely make one lap at Lewistown last year and I'd have to shut it down cause I could press the pedal to the floor without stopping!

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 8th 2010, 10:57 am

The change that helped my car the most on Brake fade was changing out the brake fluid. The fade is when your fluid boils. Put fresh high temp fluid in and that will help a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 8th 2010, 11:09 am

Anyone use a certain brake fluid they would recomend for the track? Mikey? Jason? Matt?

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 8th 2010, 4:05 pm

I cannot remember which fluid I used, but I am pretty sure it was just a standard DOT4 from Oreillys. $4 bucks for a large one.

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 9th 2010, 12:35 am

since you're car is a DD... I would just use stock OE type replacement rotors and flush the system with plain old whatever no name DOT4 and live hapily ever after. Those pads should work well
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeApril 9th 2010, 9:28 am

Thanks for all the help guys!! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeMay 8th 2010, 1:33 pm

So it makes a huge difference how many or what kind of pistons are in your calipers?
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeMay 8th 2010, 2:33 pm

stimutacks wrote:
So it makes a huge difference how many or what kind of pistons are in your calipers?

Oh it makes a little bit of difference Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeMay 11th 2010, 9:03 pm

The more pistons you have in your calipers the better stopping power you should have.

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeMay 12th 2010, 1:16 pm

even with no brake pads? lol help me out here.... i'm a noob
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeMay 13th 2010, 6:25 pm

So is it easy to install disks and pads? I posted a section but no one seems to want to help me.

pale

I'm looking for some better calipers now to install later.
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeMay 13th 2010, 8:18 pm

I was just informed the EBAY Brakes I bought are going to crack in TWO and send me to my death.
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeMay 13th 2010, 9:29 pm

Rotors and pads are easy bro. Just google it if nothing else lol

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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeMay 17th 2010, 12:18 am

Pads seem easy yes....the rotors? What you do about rust? PLus some friends of mine discovered we'll need power drills and extractors to take out the old screws. It's rusted to the car.

Tried to put them on but couldn't get the old ones off.
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PostSubject: Re: Simple Brake Upgrades?   Simple Brake Upgrades? Icon_minitimeMay 18th 2010, 12:10 am

Found a simple fix. Just hammer the bitch a few times. jiggles it loose.
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