should I do this deal!!! Subie guys please comment as I know nothing about them

Ok look Have a guy that wants to trade me his wrx wagon for my civic..Says it runs good everything has checked out by his mechanic..says has a 2.5 block with everything but the bearings and gaskets that he will throw in as well..I dont know anything about subies so any input advice etc would be extremely helpful..Think the car would be fun this winter and to cruise around in..So should I trade him my civic for this..Deal is my civic without the wheels sparco seats or all the new suspension parts I just put on it for is car.. Is it worth it

here is link to his car

http://www.hondamarketplace.com/showthread.php?t=2768563

link don't work!

link is fixed

What you wanna sell that rear sway for if you do it?

Which sway bar?? If ur meaning progress one Im not selling any of parts I just bought..Gonna buy eg hatch to put everything on.Gonna build a scca eg hatch..something I can beat up and not feel guilty about it like I do in the EM1 dont ask why I do cuz I dont know why...Just thinking of this as a dd..

HMM..??...Who ever buys that WRX wagon for $8,200 is smoking CRACK!!!!...not tryin to be rude but the wrx gots some pretty bad dents all over the body and too many miles! even if the motor was rebuilt i still dont think this would be a good trade bro. i would rather keep your Em1 then some WAGON!!! haha but its up too you!

I have three dogs and like to mt bike was why i was thinking of it..The EM1 is going to a new home no matter what...Only want one honda project and thats going to be a eg...I have a problem when it comes to cars so Thats why I cant have a eg hatch and the EM1 be spending money on both and then I would be sleeping in one of them..No thanks I like my bed and my badass expensive as hell basement I just built..lol....

Plus I know a awesome pdr guy..works magic with dents!!!

111,000 miles isnt alot on a Subaru, a turbo one kinda, Body damage isnt to bad, easily replaced. id try to knock it down somemore. also make sure the Timing belt has been done, have him do a Compression test for you.

ah but he is including a bad ass motor... hmm its a good deal i think going for less would be nice. but its a good deal

Yeah I think that's a good deal with the motor included. The 2.5l's are really sought after engines in the Subaru world because they make a considerable amount more torque than the 2.0l's.

If he wasn't throwing in the 2.5 it wouldn't be a deal for me

how hard is it to put this head on 2.5 block...does it all line up..etc

my two cents..... subaru's are the biggest nightmare in the world to work on compared to most standard engine layouts. As you can see on the forum there are plenty of people that mess with them, but coming from the world of simple honda's you are going to have a big learning curve! Just ask a subaru guy how long it takes to change spark plugs.

My theory on cars.... dented outside, means poorly cared for car (unless its a track car). Who knows what else is "dented" on the car. AWD trannies are not cheap.

Jake has a point, sometimes when the car isn't taken care of on the outside, it's not taken care of all around. Spark plugs take me about 20-30 minutes to change. I've never worked on anything but a Subaru so I can't so if it's easier or harder than other platforms. Most things I have done on my car have been fairly simple. However, I have had (with the help of others) the intake manifold off three times. Also did a turbo swap not too long ago.

The 5-speed tranny is prone to breaking, but like anything else, if you treat it right it will last. I've tracked my car and have thrown more power at it than recommended but it's still holding up fine. Used 5-speeds can be had for fairly cheap but the 6-speeds are really expensive (3500-5000)

i know a good subaru tech if you do get it.

From what you say here, and from what he says on the thread, the car has been abused. Yeah, you've got the makings of a strong engine, but only SOME of the makings. The rest of the car seems problematic.

You'll need to have the heads shaved, new cams, new springs and retainers, new shims or buckets. You should also have the block balanced. Larger turbo. Better fuel rails. All new everything on the engine: water pump, oil pump, timing gear, etc., etc.

But the big problem, and it is a really big, really expensive problem, is that once the engine is built, you'll need a different transmission and clutch. Figure about $5,000-6,000 IF you do the work yourself. If.

Rough estimate: about an additional $10,000 to 12,000 if you build the engine the way it should be built, and if you do most of the work yourself.

In short, it looks to me like you are walking into a money pit. Don't do it. You can buy already built WRX Wagon for a hell of a lot less.

04 Wagon Boy: A 255 block with 2.0 heads that are done correctly will shred the stock transmission without even trying. The problem is not only the gears, but also the input shaft. The stock input shaft is a two-piece shaft, and with the kind of torque that that engine will generate it will twist the shaft even at relatively low rpm, especially in fourth and fifth gear. If this sounds like the voice of experience, it is.

Also, building the five speed into a strong transmission is less expensive, and will give you a stronger transmission, than putting in a six-speed. It's a wagon. You need a lot more than just the transmission to put in a six-speed.

Holy shit not looking to spend that kinda of money on this..(wanna build a eg hatch) I just wanted a daily driver to take kid to soccer, throw mt bike in, dogs...thought this would do that...Great for winter driving

How much could I pick up a stock bottom end for or have one in it redone??

What could I get for the 2.5 parts?

2.0 short block is 1200.00 new. and i have a set of 2.0 heads i will sell for 200.00

subaru is the best car to drive year round IMO

dyno76: It doesn't look to be just a case of rebuilding the engine into a relatively stock version of the 2.0 (Stage 2 is fine with the stock transmission). The problem is that you don't know how the rest of the car, especially the clutch and transmission, have been treated. Just looking at the photo, and reading between the lines, that car has been abused. Which means the entire drive line has been abused.

I have a good friend who is selling his 04 silver Wagon. It has relatively low miles (about 70K), and I just put in the uppipe/downpipe/Stage 2 tune for him. Steve in Billings supplied the tune. It has new 18" wheels with Toyo summer tires/Blizak winter tires. He has to sell it because he has to buy a large, ugly, 4X4 truck for work. It's a nice car. Nearly all of the miles are Interstate miles (he uses a shop truck for a daily driver). I don't know what he wants for it, but whatever it is, it will be a really good deal.

And if you want a totally built Wagon, I'll sell you mine (I have a foot/ankle injury that is making it hard for me to use a clutch). Mine is a done deal. There's nothing to do on it, except to make it even stronger. It's a daily driver that eats alive just about everything else out there that is street legal--and it gets good mileage.

Just talked to my friend. He wants 14,500 for his 05 WRX Wagon. It's got 57,500 miles on it. Stock 16" wheels with good summer tires. New black, spoked, red stripe 18" wheels with good Toyo road tires and like-new Blizzaks. The Stage 2 includes: TurboXS uppipe, Invidia downpipe, and Borla Hush catback. He never drives it hard. In fact, I don't think he even knows how to drive it hard. As I said, it is not a daily driver. He uses it mostly to go between Missoula and Trout Lake, Washington (near Hood River). The Borla is quiet, but does not restrict performance.

I appreciate all the responses has helped me decide to pass on car..

Ronin not looking to spend that kinda of money on a car to just use in town..Have a 09 Pilot and Just spent an obscene amount on building are basement...So cash flow is lighter than before..lol..Home ownership gotta love it

b1r - TS wrote:

Just ask a subaru guy how long it takes to change spark plugs.
.

ya dont ask lol its a damn nightmare unless you have little tiny hands

No problem. Just wanted you to see what is out there. I promise you, if you had that 05 WRX Wagon, the Pilot would sit in the garage most of the time.

LOL. I use my monster for just about everything, including hunting. Two of us (big guys), two mountain bicycles (wheels off, handlebars turned), all our hunting gear (packs, rifles, boxes of ropes, bunji cords, etc.), and a quartered bull elk (four on one side, five on the other; only the antlers, no head, no legs), over 20 miles out on a gnarly logging road. The guys with giant 4X4s couldn't believe it. We didn't scrape bottom even once. This is the same car that makes stock Vettes pretend that it isn't there. The same car that last summer and fall I drove cross country, Montana to Philly to Seattle to Montana. The most comfortable car I've ever driven on a long trip.

WTF is this about the plugs being hard to change on a WRX? 30 minutes if I'm alone and the music is on but there is no beer. 45 minutes if I'm alone and the music is on AND there is beer. One hour, if the music is on AND friends are watching AND there is beer. All bets are off if the beer is Lite beer and the music is country-western. Country-western just makes me want to break or shoot things, usually both. Lite beer makes me want to drink Tequila.

Plugs aren't really that hard u just need the right tools..mainly a couple extentions and a swivel joint.

b1r - TS wrote:

my two cents..... subaru's are the biggest nightmare in the world to work on compared to most standard engine layouts. As you can see on the forum there are plenty of people that mess with them, but coming from the world of simple honda's you are going to have a big learning curve! Just ask a subaru guy how long it takes to change spark plugs.

My theory on cars.... dented outside, means poorly cared for car (unless its a track car). Who knows what else is "dented" on the car. AWD trannies are not cheap.

^^Thats very will said!!!! for the time and money your going to spend on the wagon Ben. it not going to be worth your time. plus you want to build a hatch right! i rather sell the Em1 and dump that cash to the EG GL with the sell bro!

Yeah I use to drive hondas and they are a blast to work on. Jake is right there is pretty big learning when working on Subarus but it isn't too difficult. Plugs can be pain but ask a honda guy how long it takes to change his alternator.

Either way there going to be ups and downs working on any car so don't let something like changing plugs influence your decision. WRX's are great car for all around driving, racing, and modding. Hondas are great as well.

I would do more research on this WRX and make sure everything checks out such as compression, timing belt, water pump, turbo, oil leaks, vacuum issues, and if it has been modded. Buying modded cars can be a nightmare to purchase so do your research and have someone run a OBD2 scanner on it to see what codes it has thrown.

Goodluck my friend and I hope some of that helped.

Compared to the average car nearly ever part on a subaru is tough to work on. I could have my SR out and torn down to a bare block in 1-2 hours. Obviously my engine was bare bones anyways but the few times I have worked on Subaru's has made me swear to never own one. I'm glad everyone around here likes them and I think there are a lot of nice ones around town. But the engine design will never compete with a lot of other engines, not only for working on it but for overall performance and reliability. Not to mention the amount of lag the turbo motors have with even a mild turbo unless you go twin scroll.

Not gonna buy this wagon..But I will need something to drive around once I can pick up this eg hatch I want..As it has no motor...But hoping to find a motor quickly for it as I want to be able to scca it at the next aug event..We will see maybe still have Em1 and wont have to worry about it but it has been getting alot of attention lately...And dont think the lady will let me drive the pilot and her ride the pedal bike if em1 does sell..lol maybe hahahahahahaha

Engine design on Subarus "will never compete." Eh? There is no better design for an AWD car. Fuji Heavy Industries and Porche have a long-standing feud over who had the design first. It appears that Fuji Heavy Industries did (they used it in aircraft engines). Of course, some of you may consider Porche engines to be in the same "will-never-compete" class.

Ronin wrote:

Engine design on Subarus "will never compete." Eh? There is no better design for an AWD car. Fuji Heavy Industries and Porche have a long-standing feud over who had the design first. It appears that Fuji Heavy Industries did (they used it in aircraft engines). Of course, some of you may consider Porche engines to be in the same "will-never-compete" class.

I will give you your argument from a broad perspective... boxer engines have there place and shouldn't be completley discounted. I worked as an aerospace engineer for several years designing gyroplanes and there was no better canidate for that application. We in fact used ej25 's directly out of subaru's on the smaller kit aircrafts. However, when you throw one key factor into Jason statement i agree with him completely (and not just because he is my brother)... when price is considered there is no way they compete. I put them in the same category as the wankel, it's a great feat of engineering and has it's strengths. But when you compare it with other engines and put price into the mix, inline 4's, v-6's and v-8's etc. dominaate.

As I said, it's the best design for an AWD. A car is the sum of its parts, and the engine is only one part. The boxer engine is perfectly suited to a Subaru AWD. You could put a WRX engine in a Honda, and you would have a Honda that performs like a Porche. But put a Honda engine in a Subaru and you would have . . . a very expensive headache.

Subarus have always been a more expensive platform than other tuner cars, that is the way it is. When I bought mine back in 2000 I had no idea what I was getting into. I will tell you this much, I have over $100,000 into my car and I am not even hitting 11s yet. Pretty sure there are cars out there that have less than $2000 done to them (with the price of the car) that are running 11s.

It takes alot to maintain a Subaru as compared to other Japanese vehicles. Parts are starting to become easier to come by, but they are still very expensive. Subarus really were not that popular of a tuner car until around 2002 with the release of the WRX. I had an exhaust, intake, plugs, and wires on my car for about 3 years before any sort of tuning stuff was even available.

Good choice staying with the Honda, much easier to work on and the parts are much easier to come by.

For arguments sake I would like to say working on Subarus is not that bad. I find it pretty easy actually.

My 90 honda civic is not a blast to work on. Try taking the alternator out. Seriously Honda? I have to disconnect the axle and remove the alternator from below? :/

That is funny because on a Subaru the alternator comes off with (2) 12mm bolts. Less than 2 minutes from start to finish. Now taking off a head, much easier on a Honda, Subaru, be ready to pull the motor.

Ronin wrote:

As I said, it's the best design for an AWD. A car is the sum of its parts, and the engine is only one part. The boxer engine is perfectly suited to a Subaru AWD. You could put a WRX engine in a Honda, and you would have a Honda that performs like a Porche. But put a Honda engine in a Subaru and you would have . . . a very expensive headache.

I guess it all depends on what your definition of best is. For me "best" would get me the greatest bang for my buck, performance and reliability. When I had the chance to choose I chose to buy an EVO over an STI for that very reason. I think the car industry also shows that the overall "best" AWD engine design is not the boxer engine. Simply look at the number of AWD cars produced and see what ratio of the cars is a boxer platform... I would venture to guess that it is the minoriity. If you chance the argument to best race AWD platform... then MAYBE you could make a case for the boxer engine.

A good ol nissan guy vs. subaru guy battle of what is better!

Since when are sales numbers (ie, "number of AWD cars produced") the best metric?

Riptide wrote:

My 90 honda civic is not a blast to work on. Try taking the alternator out. Seriously Honda? I have to disconnect the axle and remove the alternator from below? :/

Yeah that was a ton of fun fighting that staked nut on the hub for three days just to get to the alternator, not to mention a spider web of belts.. i remember much cursing during that job... jumping up and down on a breaker bar prolly looked pretty silly to the neighbors lol.

I have changed an alternator in a '96 Accord and it was not easy. Not sure if it was the same or not.

How can you say the EJ25 is better than the 4G63? That engine can handle more abuse than just about any engine out there and will out perform them with very minimal modifications. I have personally helped build a few EJ25's with everything from a mild turbo upgrade to Gt35r's all have been disappointing from a bang for your buck stand point. They have more lag, less power and under high stresses most of them fail.

The 4G63 was built for a long time without many major changes for a reason, its flows well, is very strong and responds easily to modifications. Not to mention the GTiR SR20det that even with its old age outperforms a lot of today's newer engines in reliability and engineering. There are so many poor engineering choices on the EJ25's there is no way you can claim it to be one of the best AWD engines out there. Not to mention I have seen more EJ25's fail with less than 400hp than any other AWD motor, the GTiR SR, RB26, and 4G63 will take that power and run in stock form for years, even many "built" EJ's won't take that abuse. I'm sorry for opening up this debate, I realize I should have kept my mouth shut. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Subaru's and as I said there are some nice ones out there, but especially as someone who owns one you should be able to agree they have a lot of poor engineering choices and are more prone to engine failure than most other comparable AWD motors.

^^ I agree with that guy. Subaru motors fail more than any other motor I have ever seen, but when they are working properly HOLY CRAP!

That's the thing when you have them built right and everything working they can be awesome, I'm just saying they are known for their short comings so if someone new is getting into them they should know. As you know it takes a lot of time and money to get an engine to the level yours is at and will probably always take some tweaks here and there. That's why you like it, it gives you a project that's always changing! And is challenging. I'm just saying if you took some of the other AWD motors a simple turbo/injectors/ECU flash and you'll be at 400+ hp and stock reliability with quick spool and good low end power.

Personally i love the low center of gravity and symmetrical aspects to the subaru drivetrain layout.. they have their caveats, but if treated right they will perform fine and wont break. The ej is not an engine you can rev the piss out of and expect to be reliable.. (unless u build it to) i think alot of failures can be attributed to people not treating them properly. Ie: driving very hard when cold, bouncing off the rev limiter between shifts.. not checking the oil as they do like to sip a bit under high load. They probably requre a bit mor maintenance than normal, but im ok with that. And u gotta love the sound of a boxer.

^^ I also agree with that guy. Nothing like the sound of a boxer flying by rapped out at 8000!!

Most 4 cylinder cars I've heard - no thanks. Don't care for the sound.

The boxer motor is the single exception. It is the only 4 cylinder motor that sounds good IMO.