b18c1 built stong enough for turbo? Civic or Prelude?

Ok, picked up a 97 prelude and love it, fun as hell. Been looking for a fun car for myself for a while as I am not riding the deathrockets anymore. I love the prelude, and it is a good car, has 155k on it, and needs paint as it has the famous honda fade.

I have been looking at a 93 custom civic on the west side of the state for a while...its built, a little too blingy with a ps2 in the dash and some leather interior seats, as I usually like just simple and fast, but it would work. I am drooling over the motor and mechanical setup of the car, always wanted something to make a sick quarter mile car but still daily drive. Opinions? Could it handle a small turbo? Should I keep the lude and build or go after the civic? To me it has so many trick parts for the money.

Direct quote from the guy about the setup...says everything runs perfect without any issues etc....


Aight here's a list of mods ill start with the engine: Its b18c1 out of a 95 integra gsr that's completely rebuilt it has eagle h-beam rods slp 11.5:1 compression pistons je rings the head is ported and polished stage 2 cams crower cam gears block sleeve bigger throttle body aem fuel rail and regulator accel injectors bigger fuel pump enjo motor mounts AEM V2 cold air intake dc sports header full exhaust center force dual friction clutch act light weight fly wheel stronger cv axles I think that all of it the interior is all blue and white leather and everything else is professionally painted all of the blue in the car is smoothed so it looks like fiberglass there is an alpine flip out monitor and a flip down from the roof and ps2 in the dash it has an Apexi VTEC controller white face gauges B&M short shifter dark blue carpet I just put new tires and brakes on it. Outside it has a full kit hood taillights headlights cornerlights$ 6000 paint job white 17s adjustable coil overs z3 fenders I'm sure I'm missing stuff but that's most of it. Here's the vin #JHMEG8550PSO38541 and the chassis of the car has 144000 miles and the motor has 6500 the only downside the car has is it used to have a wing on it and now it doesn't so there are a couple holes in the trunk but you could put a wing on it and that would be fixed.
The lude....



And the civic, everytime I look at the motor pic I drool bad....

I'll take the lude! Nice lookin car there. Being an engine question I'm moving to the engine section.

haproot wrote:

I'll take the lude! Nice lookin car there. Being an engine question I'm moving to the engine section.

I wondered if I should put there, thanks!

Ok, 1 vote for the lude, lol!

I vote keep searching, I built an engine out of the prelude about 9 years ago and turbo'd it. At the time I thought it was super fast. Now that I actually have a fast car I realize it probably made about 200hp to the wheels at 10psi. It was fun however would have never been fast.

The problem with the Prelude is that its heavy. It takes a lot of power to make up for weight. If you were to turbo the lude and run 10-18 psi I would bet you would be looking at a 13 second car depending on tuning and how well the mods work together.

If you were to find a hatch of some sort, CRX, civic whatever and turbo the stock motor you could easliy run low 11's with good tires and driving. A 160-200hp lite hatch will be a very fast car, but the 4dr civic or prelude will take 300+ to get to that same level. A properly built NA motor or LS/vtecwould out perform the turbo motor and still maintain stockish reliability.

The other problem is the motor in the civic is built NA, it has too high of compression for a proper turbo setup. Not that it can't be done at that high of compression ratio and help out with spool and low end power. But you wil have to have a tune that is spot on to avoid shooting a rod out the side of the block. I''d be more than happy to talk your ear off on this subject if you want more or my input. I know personally from the $10,000+ I spent on the engine in the Accord that it was not fast in my opinion. It was faster than stock but no where what it should have been with the money I put into it.

ts4l wrote:

I vote keep searching, I built an engine out of the prelude about 9 years ago and turbo'd it. At the time I thought it was super fast. Now that I actually have a fast car I realize it probably made about 200hp to the wheels at 10psi. It was fun however would have never been fast.

The problem with the Prelude is that its heavy. It takes a lot of power to make up for weight. If you were to turbo the lude and run 10-18 psi I would bet you would be looking at a 13 second car depending on tuning and how well the mods work together.

If you were to find a hatch of some sort, CRX, civic whatever and turbo the stock motor you could easliy run low 11's with good tires and driving. A 160-200hp lite hatch will be a very fast car, but the 4dr civic or prelude will take 300+ to get to that same level. A properly built NA motor or LS/vtecwould out perform the turbo motor and still maintain stockish reliability.

The other problem is the motor in the civic is built NA, it has too high of compression for a proper turbo setup. Not that it can't be done at that high of compression ratio and help out with spool and low end power. But you wil have to have a tune that is spot on to avoid shooting a rod out the side of the block. I''d be more than happy to talk your ear off on this subject if you want more or my input. I know personally from the $10,000+ I spent on the engine in the Accord that it was not fast in my opinion. It was faster than stock but no where what it should have been with the money I put into it.

Awesome! Thanks for the info! I don't know if the civic deal will end up working as he just wants to much money for it. I have seen the 20k in receipts, unreal. If I keep the lude I will probably keep it mostly stock, and do a few little mods, but wouldn't turbo it out or anything, it is fun as it is, not insane by any means, but fun. Good info on the compression, I didn't even think of that but it makes perfect sense, the engine does seem to be built with na in mind. I would assume with more tuning etc I could really get the civic humming, but who knows, he spent a lot of time on the build, and it spooks me picking up someone elses project, but if I could get it for cheap enough the engine alone could pay me back if I had to sell it.

If you go through with the Civic remember that in this economy cars are worth a lot less than a few years ago. If he thinks its worth $20,000 or even $12,000 he's crazy. I have over $50,000 in receipts for my car and that does not include labor for anything, mostly because other than welding/body work I have done it all. Even with 460hp when I sold mine last year I was lucky to get $15,000 with the way things are. You can buy some really nice cars these days for less than $10,000. Heck for $15,000 you can have a 240 with a 2jz swap with 600hp and 18x12 wheels in back. Its definitely a good time to be buying not selling.

Quote :

it spooks me picking up someone elses project

Never want to pick up a project from someone you dont know is good with tools. You never know, that car could be a big 'ol piece of crap. It is very hard to tell how nice a car is until you actually see it in person. I would almost stick with the prelude, as it looks clean and it is already 200HP. Too bad it is an SH, as that adds about 300lbs to the rear.

ts4l wrote:

If you go through with the Civic remember that in this economy cars are worth a lot less than a few years ago. If he thinks its worth $20,000 or even $12,000 he's crazy. I have over $50,000 in receipts for my car and that does not include labor for anything, mostly because other than welding/body work I have done it all. Even with 460hp when I sold mine last year I was lucky to get $15,000 with the way things are. You can buy some really nice cars these days for less than $10,000. Heck for $15,000 you can have a 240 with a 2jz swap with 600hp and 18x12 wheels in back. Its definitely a good time to be buying not selling.

100% right on the money here! Kid is nuts if he is wanting more than even $8000. He is going to be the owner of that car forever priced any higher than that (price might even be high).

I had a lude for a few years. they are fun cars. but the down side is that they are heavy. The civic seems pretty nice also but if your looking for a car to be quick on the track and still enjoy driving on the streets. id say that car isnt for you one being its a 4 door little to heavy for a track car. the other downside is you couldnt just boost that motor cause of the compression. If your looking for a track car id go with 2 dr civic or crx depending on what you like. i have a Si crx and with the b16 and a 65 shot it went 13.9 not to bad for a stock b16 with a 65 shot.

DoodieHead [ADMIN] wrote:

ts4l wrote:

If you go through with the Civic remember that in this economy cars are worth a lot less than a few years ago. If he thinks its worth $20,000 or even $12,000 he's crazy. I have over $50,000 in receipts for my car and that does not include labor for anything, mostly because other than welding/body work I have done it all. Even with 460hp when I sold mine last year I was lucky to get $15,000 with the way things are. You can buy some really nice cars these days for less than $10,000. Heck for $15,000 you can have a 240 with a 2jz swap with 600hp and 18x12 wheels in back. Its definitely a good time to be buying not selling.

100% right on the money here! Kid is nuts if he is wanting more than even $8000. He is going to be the owner of that car forever priced any higher than that (price might even be high).

I agree to an extent. I do like the prelude and it is fairly quick, but I have this nasty thing called a mod bug that gets inside me, it is from riding crotchrockets, always had to be a little quicker the next night out....LOL! Basically I already have the itch to put some mods into the prelude and to get it painted, however after starting to put some numbers together, I think I could get well over a couple grand quick just doing some simple mods and paint, and even after that point it isn't going to be a monster by any means. I really wish it was an sh, as I think that would help me keep it a little more. The way I am looking at this whole deal is basically like this....I traded an old saab and 300 bucks for the prelude, was into the saab 2500, so that puts me into the prelude at $2800 total, which is a really really good deal. (Don't ever buy a saab, if you want to ask me why I will be glad to spend some time going over multiple reasons. ) At $2800 the car is a great buy, however I have been talking with this fellow for quite a while on the civic, and he basically just needs the cash for the next project. Most people are scared to buy into someone else's project I agree, and him asking $8000 for it does not make this a car anyone can just get their hands on, I have worked him for a while on the angle that he would have a much easier time selling a stock car and taking some cash to get the sale done for him, and he know agrees as no one is hitting him up on his advertisements. (Being winter and very spendy isn't helping I am sure either, definately a better time to be buying then selling.) I have also worked him for over a month on how he is overpriced bla bla bla (I learned this at rimrock selling cadillac's long ago, it is called devaluing the customers car in the customers mind when trading in.) I absolutely grilled him over the last couple weeks as I have been getting more serious about the car, and am loving the way it looks with the more pictures he sends me. I have always wanted a fun car that is a little loud a little flashy and a little custom, that I can have fun with. The wife has the 09 forester xt for her main rig, and I love it but just don't get to drive it too much, and she wants it quiet and all stock with subaru parts. I would love an rs or something to build, but again finding a good project and getting parts into it is going to get pricey fast. Basically for $1200 and my $2800 lude I can have this car for $4k, which too me with all the quality high end parts and build seems like a great deal for me on a car to keep, not to flip or sell. The motor alone I would think I could take my time selling on fleabay and get my money back out of, but I would keep the car as long as it runs. The lude is a fun motor and transmission with the autoshift, and is a quick car, but I just want to do things that are going to be money to it.

This guy has all his receipts totaled over $20k into the car, most of the money on the engine build which is what I mostly like about the car. (Have already thought about a more stock interior redo as it is really flashy, but I will wait until I am in it for a while to see, it may grow on me.) Long story short from what I can understand is his family is simply very well off. The garage in the pics is his garage, only for his project cars. He also has a fully built 240 with welded rear diff and cage for his drift car, and a rx7 insanely boosted for his somewhat daily driver when it is nice out. This car was specifically built for show, but he wanted the motor build to be key in the car. He started with a b18c1 block from a buddies wrecked integra and went crazy ordering parts from there. I asked him how the build was put together, if it was balanced etc etc....He replied that Bradford's Balance and machine balanced and blueprinted the motor in Kalispell, I called and they confirmed and advised the Dad has a lot of work done there on big block drag motors etc, and is a good customer. He advised that his dad built the entire motor, and does most of his work (suprisingly candid) as he says his dad is just really good at that stuff. I looked his dad up and he has quite a dragracing and motor building history even showing on the net. The car has no check engine lights and he assured me also has zero issues. I would absolutely again make sure of that and crawl through the entire car before trading. I would be meeting him halfway to purchase the car and would be sure to take it out on the interstate and wind it up, before trading any cash or cars.

I have really ran this guy through the ringer asking him tons of questions, he is also quick to answer and professional and everything has checked out to this point. As stated you never know until you see hear and drive the car yourself, but he says it is even fully aligned, cambered, tougher front axles, the works. For the amount of time and money I would spend to do the same thing would be substantially higher than what I can get into this car for, and having a son and a couple jobs it is harder to find the time to do stuff like this when I could be spending time with my son. I could still do simple mods or changes down the road on this car, to make it a bit more my style, but it wouldn't be a month end project (which I do miss doing as I get older, but again can't justify the time when my boy is wanting to play wii!)

I really appreciate all the comments and ideas and perspectives from these sights, and look forward to any positive or negative input, or any ideas on other things to look for when buying. He stated it has basically been sitting for a while, so I would probably redo all fluids for good measure, as he doesn't drive it unless it is a super nice day after all the gravel is off the roads from winter. He also just put new tires on all the way around before parking last year (with receipt) as well as a brand new battery. My wife is about to kill me, so I am glad to talk about this to someone other than her, one positive she has got to the point of " I don't even care just get the stupid car and shutup already" LOL

shawnss wrote:

I had a lude for a few years. they are fun cars. but the down side is that they are heavy. The civic seems pretty nice also but if your looking for a car to be quick on the track and still enjoy driving on the streets. id say that car isnt for you one being its a 4 door little to heavy for a track car. the other downside is you couldnt just boost that motor cause of the compression. If your looking for a track car id go with 2 dr civic or crx depending on what you like. i have a Si crx and with the b16 and a 65 shot it went 13.9 not to bad for a stock b16 with a 65 shot.

I think I remember talking to you about your car a while back, and do really like it as one of my first cars was a crx that I miss dearly, but being a family man the 4 door honestly seems to suit me a little bit better for the ease of getting my tall 5 year old in and out of the car. I agree I am not going to be near as light as a crx, as they are basically go carts LOL but I am thinking with the motor build the car should still scoot pretty darn good, and I would think if I really wanted I could do the same as you and do a simple nos kit....don't know if I would get too concerned about it as the dragstrip days are all for fun and reaction time work for me anyways. That honestly sounds like a really good 1/4 time for a b16, I bet with some work you could really get it moving. I'll just pull out the back seat at the track...LOL!

I would like the crx, as it is clean, but for me I would be silly to trade my prelude off without doing somewhat ok on it, which I don't think we could work. Also everyone knows my numbers know, I showed my cards too soon, LOL!

A few more pics, they gutted everything before painting the car, and everything seems to be very very well assembled and put together, anyone see anything out of place?

whoa I just threw up in my mouth a little

That is what I get for asking for positive or negative input, LOL!

What don't you like about it? I have my own ideas of what I would like to change etc, and realize to each their own, but different perspectives sometimes make you think outside the box.

What do you drive? RWD Honda?

I guess this is just my opinion and you are right to each thier own. so on the one hand that interior is way to flashy for me. again if you like it fine but it is a little silly if you think about it. On the other hand if that is a stock internals gsr swap then yes you can turbo it. I have seen an Si hatch with a boosted b18c1 go 11.57 so with a little work you could have a very quick car on your hands. but depending on your end goals and how much you would end up spending in this car you could probably build your own version for less money. dont let anyone tell you what to do but dont be surprised if you get a little negative feedback from people who disagree, nothing personal.

So I picked up the car, and like a lot about it, the motor is amazing, and the overall look of the car is really nice. I agree and perhaps would have done the inside different if it was my project. I have decided though that I just am a subaru guy, so I am selling this or going to attempt to trade back into a subaru. Really thought I would love the car and I love a lot about it, but just think I have decided subaru's are the car for more.

So car is for sale or trade, spread the word if you know anyone that would be interested in this car. It is very very nice in many ways. I want to trade for a wrx, Mr. Card told me good luck, LOL a man can dream right!

well good luck with the car. It sucks to hear that you just got it and now you want to get rid of it. I guess like anything in life you live and learn.... hopefully it won't be too painful of an experience.

My vote, take the engine and swap it into a clean hatch and then part the rest of the car out and sell a stock bodied civic with new paint on craigslist.

b1r - TS wrote:

well good luck with the car. It sucks to hear that you just got it and now you want to get rid of it. I guess like anything in life you live and learn.... hopefully it won't be too painful of an experience.

My vote, take the engine and swap it into a clean hatch and then part the rest of the car out and sell a stock bodied civic with new paint on craigslist.

Not a bad idea! If I end up keeping the car it won't hurt my feelings anyways, but I am going to try and get into a wrx any way possible, LOL.

The motor is awesome though, I can't imagine it in a lighter car.

the rest of the car looks pretty decent..... but the interior reminds me of the Care Bears. Are their any rainbows? LOL
No slam intended.... just opinion. Becasue I know the hard work that went into doing that.

Dr.Auto wrote:

the rest of the car looks pretty decent..... but the interior reminds me of the Care Bears. Are their any rainbows? LOL
No slam intended.... just opinion. Becasue I know the hard work that went into doing that.

No, I have some people that have said, wow, it looks really nice, and then a lot of eye rolls! A little too much for me, but again, suprisingly, some people love it!

Find a clean hatch do the old switcharoo with both motors and sell the fow dow f-show again... opinion

Some little pics, click to see full size, it is a clean shell, if the interior was stock it would look good, some minor touches may really clean it up....

Alright. Here is my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.

Lose the fenders and hood. Both SCREAM rice. Keep the skirts, but lose the front bumper. Too much going on up there. Clear tails don't look bad, but those are just hideous. Find some new ones. About the exhaust, if you aren't pushing a TON of boost, there is no reason for a dual on that 4 cyl. Get rid of that rear bumper and replace exhaust. The car isn't even that over the top, and it looks like everything was done right(but being done right doesn't mean it looks good).
Now I know you said you have gotten compliments on it, but by who? Let me know if I am wrong but I am assuming most of the people calling that a dope ride are between 15-24, males, and don't know a stitch about engine work but can name every body kit manufacturer that exists.
The car really does have some potential but there are a few things that should be addressed. At the VERY LEAST, get rid of that hood. It's not a pontiac, and the bumper doesn't even line up properly in the front.

Even some tails like this wouldn't look too bad.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-1993-1994-1995-HONDA-CIVIC-TAIL-LIGHTS-LAMP-CHROME_W0QQitemZ280460203026QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item414cbb1412
The weird white design on the tails in there just looks tacky.

And then even a hood like this wouldn't look too bad
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-1993-1994-1995-Civic-Ram-Air-Hood_W0QQitemZ270435242619QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ef732527b
The hood on there is just so....out there. The scoops are HUGE.

RedMitsu wrote:

Even some tails like this wouldn't look too bad.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-1993-1994-1995-HONDA-CIVIC-TAIL-LIGHTS-LAMP-CHROME_W0QQitemZ280460203026QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item414cbb1412
The weird white design on the tails in there just looks tacky.

And then even a hood like this wouldn't look too bad
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-1993-1994-1995-Civic-Ram-Air-Hood_W0QQitemZ270435242619QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ef732527b
The hood on there is just so....out there. The scoops are HUGE.

A lot of girls actually really dig the car, my father in law says "with that hood I can't tell if it is coming or going" LOL

I am actually working a trade on a 2.5RS with a Garrett gt2252 and front mount setup....trying to work out the details and it is quite a ways away, but I have always wanted a cheap wrx, and this might be as close as I am going to get. The civic is a blast, don't get me wrong, but being older I wouldn't mind something a tad more suttle.