New shop is going up!!

I was sitting back thinking with Montoya about possibly starting a business with painting, powdercoating, and dyno all in one. Not sure if we are reaching for the stars here, but I have been looking into some pricing and it really seems possible depending upon interest. I have the perfect location and the building is already there. What do you guys think?

That would be pretty sick mike! I would utilize the dyno and most likely the powdercoating. I have been doing most of my own painting and i actually want to get some nice painting equipment and give that a try as well. would this place be located in shepherd or here in billings?

It is on HWY 312 about 4 miles out of town toward Shepherd.

I would support the dyno!!! and you already know about the painting part..hahaha

Do EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTT! Doug and I were talking about how much money you could make in MT with an AWD/ 2WD dyno.

does it have room for a fab shop??

a dyno would be sweet, but you would need an employee just for its use. might eat up you time with painting, 1 of ya blocking, one spraying. but if you have the staff id go for it.

hmm...

Do I need to quit my job Mike?

I have decided that going with just a paint booth for the time being is going to be the best decision. I weighed the PROS and CONS and there are many CONS to a dyno. Paint booth is going to be ordered very soon.

Depending upon how many cars and misc things I start painting I may start up a dyno later on, but for now I am going to stick to painting.

DoodieHead wrote:

I have decided that going with just a paint booth for the time being is going to be the best decision. I weighed the PROS and CONS and there are many CONS to a dyno. Paint booth is going to be ordered very soon.

Nice.... maybe you can have it put together before I'm ready to paint my bucket of bolts.

If you can find a oven.... I have a cheapo powder coat setup. but no way to bake it.

I would love to get a speed shop going Mike.... but after still thinking about it for 5+years I still don't think there is enough moolah and interest here in Montana to support one as of yet.

Hell there isn't even a tuner local let alone a dyno. I would love to see it happen, but I am not sure there is enough interest in this small population to support a dyno shop.

i would support the powdercoating, paint and dyno..in that order, haha..but i would use them all for sure.

that would be sick man it would be right on the way when I visit home where in relation to other buildings is it is it that building on a hill with the fence or the place nearby Engines Etc. and coffee cafe?

that is a awesome idea for sure i guess start kinda small an then go bigger if things take off from there but paint an powdercoat is in high interest in alot of ppl right now to bad the dyno thing couldnt happen right away i support this all the way

It is funny how many tuner shops are around SLcUT (Salt Lake City Utah) however it is amazing and they all seem to be doing well and are very busy. The scene is also a lot more tuner cars etc around to constantly support, however I think if there was a shop to get things done a lot more people would do things, tuning included. I for one have had money at certain points in life and wanted to do things, but basically have been scared to blow my car up or not enough education to do it, and would almost rather pay a little more to a good shop that backed up there work.

You would have to advertise a lot, and get word out, but there are a lot of rural areas within a couple hundred mile radius with decent car scenes, and I think a lot would make weekend trips into town to get things done.

Give up your weekends, your nights, and your holidays for customers that really want things done now, but what better life could you have working on cars and being able to make a good living one way or another....a lot of peoples american dream.

i would assume dyno and powdercoat would bring more interest that painting, just because people are looking for a paint shop that either has proven success, or one that is gona do the best job on the cheap. just an opinion, not meaning to say you cant paint if it comes off that way

that is true i would love to see the dyno here

Alot of good points in here. Would make one really think? Have to agree on the paint thing it will be a hard road to venture down just because there are so many shops with a name already. Also that most people want it for cheap and done yesterday. Then the ones that are willing to spend the money want a proven track record.. Car lots would be the first place I would hit up to get money rolling in while you build a name...

As for the powder coating I think that is a business that could hit the ground running. Everyone is always looking for that it seems. And its not a flooded market in this town. I believe that part with little advertising and word of mouth and it would stay busy..

Now a dyno would be great well just cuz I will be neeeding one lol. but really I dont know how busy it would really stay. Granted I will say the Montana scene has grown and stepped up there standards quite a bit but I just dont know how busy it would really stay. But you know maybe with enough advertising word of mouth guy might just get pleasantly suprised. Just think you could throw on dyno days and challenges. Now that would be fun!!!

Well thats just my opinions not like anyone cares but thats the beauty of it I will still say them haha


Well whatever you decide to do Good Luck! I have a feeling you will make it work. You seem to be a driven and dedicated guy that researches everything before making any decisions

dyno might be great in this town if the track opens, not only for the import scene, but alot of muscle guys might find it useful! if the sessions were a reasonable price i don't see why it wouldn't thrive

dyno76 wrote:

Now a dyno would be great well just cuz I will be neeeding one lol. but really I dont know how busy it would really stay. Granted I will say the Montana scene has grown and stepped up there standards quite a bit but I just dont know how busy it would really stay. But you know maybe with enough advertising word of mouth guy might just get pleasantly suprised. Just think you could throw on dyno days and challenges. Now that would be fun!!!

This is Exactly what I think. And the problem with something like a Dyno is the COST of getting one and putting it in a building where you can use it. So you have a tool that everyone wants...... I would say the dyno gets overloaded with customers for the first 9 months... then once every scoobie, lawn tractor, and skateboard is tuned in a 4 state region (MT, WY, SD, ND) then the stupid thing will maybe be paid for. Then you get to make money on it.... but wait... everything has already been tuned. And unless people are blowing stuff up or changing things i think things will dwindle off. Unless you can convince MSU-N in Havre that they don't need the OLD RWD Dyno anymore and sell it to you cheap and start off like that. But that's the problem... that's what everyone in Montana has already done with Dyno's.
I just am not convinced that this 4 state region is ready to be able to support something like that. Cause really... everyone is for this.... but how many of the people that want to see it happen REALLY know how much dyno time usually costs. And how many people that want to see it are going to be able to really tune their car with it? As in.... more than three runs with a close tune and couldn't afford to do anymore.
I would love to have a REAL dyno in Billings.... but I am not convinced that it would be a good business venture at this point in time.

And Ben... IDK why you waste telling us you're opinion.... it's not like you have any experience in this field.... so stop pretending. lol j/k

an isnt it past ur bed time there matt haha

[quote="Dr.Auto"]

dyno76 wrote:

but wait... everything has already been tuned

there is alot of difference between a street tune and a dyno tune, adjustable cam timing on dohc can usually only be done on a dyno, and also is someone is looking for a place to tune their car legally without having to drop 3rd gear pulls to 100+mph, its alot more safe and reliable, also helps with race gas tunes imo

Ya i Know.... this is part of my sarcasm not being understood.

But my point is.... there IS NOT enough business to justify someone getting a building, buying a very expensive Dyno, and running it for 9 months or longer before the equipment is paid for. Then once a guy gets to the point where he can make money you dwindle off in how many customers you're tuning. And so then once again in Billings Montana a great idea that should work barely gets paid for and then the owner cait make enough money off it to stay open.

Can you say Crispy Cream Donuts?

its not set in stone, just because someone gets a tune dialed in doesnt mean they wont be changing out a turbo or injectors, or for the all motor crowd, header, itbs, cams? dynos are universally useful for alot of people, and especially for people who constantly change their setups and need a remap

jdmsolutions wrote:

its not set in stone, just because someone gets a tune dialed in doesnt mean they wont be changing out a turbo or injectors, or for the all motor crowd, header, itbs, cams? dynos are universally useful for alot of people, and especially for people who constantly change their setups and need a remap

And at that point the average Joe Montucky tuner has to wait till next year to do that turbo, or cam.... or whatever cause the money just ain't here.

everyone has their opinions, you simply cant say it will fail..

Hey I for one would be a steady customer cuz as we all know I am not scared to blow a motor up LOL hahaha

It is really hard to say what a dyno would do in this town wait need to reference the whole state as it could blow up and be busy for years to come or it could do nothing..Its one of those things that we can speculate all day about but will never know unless it is done. I will say that the Honda people are doing way more things then they ever did in this state and I will say that I think the sport compact scene is on the rise again. But the one question you have to ask is? How long is it on the rise for I personaly think its gonna just get more popular as time goes on. Just cuz of the technology for these cars is crazy now and is only getting better. I also think we are gonna see some things from the Honda community in this state that we have never seen. I dont mean never seen literally I mean from Montana Honda owners! There are some pretty impressive cars in this state that are ready to come out of the garages finally..haha...Now just gotta hope YDS opens well I keep hearing it will be open for atleast 8 races so we have that..Hopefully!. I only singled out the Honda community cuz thats what I know pay attention to, so if anyone in the other communitys want to chime in cool

Dr.Auto wrote:

jdmsolutions wrote:

its not set in stone, just because someone gets a tune dialed in doesnt mean they wont be changing out a turbo or injectors, or for the all motor crowd, header, itbs, cams? dynos are universally useful for alot of people, and especially for people who constantly change their setups and need a remap

And at that point the average Joe Montucky tuner has to wait till next year to do that turbo, or cam.... or whatever cause the money just ain't here.

You would be suprised what the average Joe Montucky can come up with when the really want something!! Amazing how fast the can get out and earn that money when there is a reason to...

agreed with ben, yds would be a major factor in this endeavor..like i said earlier, reasonable prices bring repeat customers.. there is no way to tell if its gona flop or succeed, and yes the hodna community has slightly risen lately.. the awd troops are still much greater though, either group has a few that are more performance oriented.. i.e. turbokits instead of body kits, nitrous instead of wheels. and those people are going to be the customers to keep a dyno alive

Shelling out the bucks for investing in a new business is a nerve wracking endeavor. I have been looking at options to pick up the slack so I can continue my part time teaching. I would love to have an accesible dyno, but until the drag strip is up and running for sure I think it is kinda shaky. Billings right now is not making a very good showing for motorsports. This year both the circle track and drag strip failed. I understand there are many factors that figure into this, but it does not instill confidence in a new performance oriented business making a killing. If you can get set up with minimal investment, your overhead may be low enough to make a business work. The problem facing many people is the payments on the startup loan are too large to allow any money to be made. I have been in to the SBDC (small business developement center) a few times and they have many options for helping a new business get on its feet.

Good Luck and hopefully all of you guys starting out on your own will get me to get off my ass and quit my day job.

Honestly?

I would probably be more interested in paying to use a lift. That is going to be just as if not more useful to some of us than a dyno. And probably cost you a HELL of a lot less money to setup. Of course you'd probably want to get a waiver signed every time someone puts their car up on it just so you aren't responsible for someone else's dumbass mistake(s).

Regarding a dyno I don't know. Personally I think in a town this size it may not make you money. There isn't enough people here to use the thing.

And I'm not trying to single any person out here in particular. This is a general statement. But it's one thing to say "Hell yah I'd be down to use it all the time!" and then actually doing so. People like to talk. A LOT.

Mike I think you are on the right track of bringing together multiple ideas to help you thrive. Diversification will be key to any buisness in MT because our markets are too small. Good judgment and motivation can make any buisness thrive... look at all the examples of things then went boom and the ones that went bust.

As for the dyno discussion thats going on... I think focusing on the 2wd crowd should come second, there is already a few dyno's in town and they see very little time (atleast that is my understanding) so you would have to focus on the awd crowd and then see what other angles there are to make sure you attract the 2wd crowd (tuning support).

I think right now more than ever price is going to win customers... so if you can paint or powdercoat at a great price, you will have customers. If your dyno is cheaper, you will get customers. However the struggle will be if you remain the "cheaper" option can you pay back your debt and make a profit, or will you be the one that lowers the market price and sinks everyone?

I also think the best advice I could give is talk with people who have the experience... Ben would be one to talk with and so would the other dyno shops, powdercoating shops and painters.


I think about new buisness ventures every single day (it's part of my job) so keep up the good discussions.

+1 to Riptide, I would love access to a lift for oil changes and general installs. A dyno would be sweet, but I would guess it would just sit there most of the time.

Riptide wrote:

Honestly?

I would probably be more interested in paying to use a lift. That is going to be just as if not more useful to some of us than a dyno. And probably cost you a HELL of a lot less money to setup. Of course you'd probably want to get a waiver signed every time someone puts their car up on it just so you aren't responsible for someone else's dumbass mistake(s).

Regarding a dyno I don't know. Personally I think in a town this size it may not make you money. There isn't enough people here to use the thing.

And I'm not trying to single any person out here in particular. This is a general statement. But it's one thing to say "Hell yah I'd be down to use it all the time!" and then actually doing so. People like to talk. A LOT.

This is a great idea! But the biggest problem I found with it in 2004 when I looked into opening a shop that you could rent out bays, lift areas tools etc. Was no insurance company would touch me..Risk and liabilty are to high..They wouldnt even touch it with a solid and clear waiver.. But honestly to this day I think a place like that would make a mint..

With the the Dyno thing..I really truely believe if you could find a outstanding tuner it could work..Be amazed at how far people will travel for a great tuner..It will take some time to get a name out there but like I said with the way technology is going dyno tuning is only gonna get busier..Example these new camaros and mustangs are getting tuned and boosted like crazy now by the older crowds. Guys with money that are wanting a little more than what the factory gives them. Now I dont think it is something that could stand on its own but who knows!!!

And you are correct alot of people will say ya I would use it alot and then when it comes time to they are there maybe once...Its a dice roll one of those things that you wont know unless you take the leap and try it..But honestly any business that is in the aftermarket world of cars is a gamble..I would love to open another shop knowing the things I know now. the experiences I had. Oh the things I would do different..

Yeah I know what you mean about the insurance issues which is why I mentioned Mike would want a well typed out waiver to cover his ass in court if someone decided to try and sue over something. No using the lift until the thing gets signed. Without the insurance insulating him he'd need something to show up with in court if it came to that. Odds are it may never be a problem but I'm sure he knows he better have something to protect himself.

Riptide wrote:

Yeah I know what you mean about the insurance issues which is why I mentioned Mike would want a well typed out waiver to cover his ass in court if someone decided to try and sue over something. No using the lift until the thing gets signed. Without the insurance insulating him he'd need something to show up with in court if it came to that. Odds are it may never be a problem but I'm sure he knows he better have something to protect himself.

Even with a signed waiver you can lose in court. So many loop holes arguements etc. I mean what if while someone is renting the lift they slip on floor break there back. Or lets say you are in there working and some how what you are doing injurys them or lets say guy that is renting bay next to him does something stupid and hurts guy in next bay.. See where this is going.. Thats why no insurance company will touch your business if you have something like this going on in it.. Plus the waiver if you wanted to cover everything would be 50+ pages and then if you didnt have customer review it with a their lawyer and then sighn it. Well he would lose in court..Say good bye to everything he owns... these are just some of the issues I came across when talking to the insurance companys and my lawyer when I wanted to open a business like this...

How does a shop deal with it then?

They post a sign stating no customers in work area, and the insurance only has to cover their employees.

What you guys are touching on is a good idea... just with a different twist. There are tons of new cars that require certain fluids and special care (or the owner feels that they do). So I have seen in Salt Lake one very succesful buisness that took your guys idea and made it profitable. They opened a shop and all they do is maintence on STI's and Evo's. Why? Well becuase both those cars are picky and both those cars have owners that typically do it themselves but when they find out a fellow enthusiast will do the work for them it becomes an easy choice.

Why just rent a lift, when you can rent your lift and your labor at the same time.

The shop in salt lake does everything the Dealership would (they carry a full line of oem parts, mostly small stuff like filters and fluids) but they treat your car as you would want it to be treated... because at the end of the day they love your car almost as much as you do unlike most dealerships. They also do custom work but thet is just extra cash in the bank, they pay all their bills by doing general service.

In Virgina and salt lake there are places that rent tools and shop space for the do it yourselvers, but they were all pretty low budget deals and I don't think many of them last long... I would assume it get back to the insurance issue. How much could you really charge for the use of a lift, in comparison to how expensive insurance is.

here is a company in Florida:
http://www.diyautohobbyshop.com/

Wow, I did not expect to open this post up today and have to read for 20 minutes. LOL!

My opinion on this whole debate is I believe any business will succeed as long as you are 100% into it. The main thing that worries me right now is the fact I am almost out of debt for the first time in years and I dont know if I want to venture back down that road.

There are many things I want to do to change the auto scene in the area and I believe opening a AWD Dyno Shop would be the tops. I sat down and figured out the cost of the building, insurance, dyno, and misc things and the cost is much more than I can take on right now. The only way I can see getting into a dyno is to have a partner(s) go in on it, as the cost would be about $1500 - $2000 a month for cost.

Now, buying a paint booth, that is something I can afford. I would much rather start out smaller and work from there. I am in love with painting right now and really think I can paint and make people very happy for much less than other shops are charging. Like I said, start small and branch off from there.

Looking at getting something going before the end of next month, so stay tuned and hopefully I will have a full semi-downdraft in my backyard ready for painting!

Good thinking Mike... Look at Cobb tuning, Trey started out changing oil/tires in his dad's shop and then slowly started taking on larger projects in the corner of the shop and now look where he is at.

The motivation and dedication part is definatly something you have and something you will need.

I am already starting to think about things I would have you paint!

i wish the best of luck to you Mike! no matter what you do

would be sweet...and another way to promote the club...not to mention get your name out there with most "car people" recommending you! Like you said...getting into debt would suck for a little bit but once you start raking in the cash it will have all been worth it!!!

Sucks everyone has to sue so much. I could really use that lift some times.

i think you should do it bro!

Just going to start with painting and work my way forward from there. Depending on how many people need stuff done will determine the outcome of what is next. I will just take things one step at a time in an attempt to keep my head straight and not get frustrated.

If anyone needs paint let me know.

I know of a paint booth here in town if you want mike. I agree with Dr. Auto about the dyno, cause it would take up too much room in the shop and it would be hard to fit a welder, planishing hammer, english wheel, tubing bener, plasma cutter, oxyfuel setup, drill press, lathe, mill, etc. etc. etc. haha

Exactly



lol.... I could almost work in a shop with all that stuff. When do I start?

dido